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Jason Todd
7 years ago
According to Wikipedia, there are eleven cartoons on Disc 2 of Looney Tunes Mouse Chronicles: The Chuck Jones Collection as special features. I just purchased a copy of the DVD version of this set. Are the bonus cartoons available on both the DVD and Bluray versions, or were they made exclusive to the Bluray edition?
LuckyToon
7 years ago

According to Wikipedia, there are eleven cartoons on Disc 2 of Looney Tunes Mouse Chronicles: The Chuck Jones Collection as special features. I just purchased a copy of the DVD version of this set. Are the bonus cartoons available on both the DVD and Bluray versions, or were they made exclusive to the Bluray edition?

Originally Posted by: Jason Todd 



Yes they are on both the DVD and Blu Ray copies, since I own both copies.

Although the frame rate on the Blu Ray copy is 30fps on the bonus shorts unlike the DVD which correctly features the bonuses in 25fps as they should be.
+1
Jason Todd
7 years ago
That's good. So not only do I get a nice-looking transfer of Trap Happy Porky with the original titles restored, but I also finally get a DVD copy of The Lyin' Mouse, which I used to own on a VHS tape titled Looney Tunes Presents: Taz's Jungle Jams. Of course, it'll be the same print, but it's been so long since I last saw that one.
Mesterius
7 years ago

According to Wikipedia, there are eleven cartoons on Disc 2 of Looney Tunes Mouse Chronicles: The Chuck Jones Collection as special features. I just purchased a copy of the DVD version of this set. Are the bonus cartoons available on both the DVD and Bluray versions, or were they made exclusive to the Bluray edition?

Originally Posted by: LuckyToon 



Yes they are on both the DVD and Blu Ray copies, since I own both copies.

Although the frame rate on the Blu Ray copy is 30fps on the bonus shorts unlike the DVD which correctly features the bonuses in 25fps as they should be.

Originally Posted by: Jason Todd 



Why should they be in 25 fps? Proper theatrical framerate is 24... and Warner's American Blu-ray releases have always used 23.976 fps (the equivalent of NTSC speed, i.e. 29.97 fps; or 30 fps if you want to simplify it). I wish they could have used 24 as that is the only truly correct speed. Same goes for Steve Stanchfield's Blu-rays... he always seems to be using 23.976.
+1
Toonatic
7 years ago
Could've been a typo.
Mesterius
7 years ago

Could've been a typo.

Originally Posted by: Toonatic 



Maybe, but a typo of what? 24? DVDs (unlike Blu-rays) can't be encoded in that framerate.
WaltWiz1901
7 years ago

Could've been a typo.

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



Maybe, but a typo of what? 24? DVDs (unlike Blu-rays) can't be encoded in that framerate.

Originally Posted by: Toonatic 


He meant a typo of the correct framerate.

For starters, the framerates we're discussing are:
*Film: 24 frames-per-second (most silent shorts were ran at 18 FPS, which cannot be properly replicated on either format)
*NTSC: 29-30 frames-per-second (material that runs at 24 FPS could be encoded in NTSC, but will be converted to 30 FPS during playback; the difference between either framerate should be virtually unnoticeable)
*PAL: 25 frames-per-second (because of "PAL speedup", the audio and video will sound more higher-pitched and look like it's moving faster than either film or NTSC)
Mesterius
7 years ago

Could've been a typo.

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 



Maybe, but a typo of what? 24? DVDs (unlike Blu-rays) can't be encoded in that framerate.

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 


He meant a typo of the correct framerate.

Originally Posted by: Toonatic 



Well, yeah, that's what I meant too. Why else do you think I said "24" in my reply? What I meant to ask was, "what framerate did he intend to type then"?

(For clarification: It's hard to believe that he intended to write 23.976 and ended up with 25... but intending to write 24 and accidentally typing 25 feels much more likely.)

For starters, the framerates we're discussing are:
*Film: 24 frames-per-second (most silent shorts were ran at 18 FPS, which cannot be properly replicated on either format)
*NTSC: 29-30 frames-per-second (material that runs at 24 FPS could be encoded in NTSC, but will be converted to 30 FPS during playback; the difference between either framerate should be virtually unnoticeable)

WaltWiz1901 wrote:



Going from 24 fps to the slightly slower tempo of 23.976 fps is obviously far less noticeable than a whole frame faster, which is what you get with 25 fps PAL speedup. But still, there IS a difference. 24 fps is the only true, 100% correct framerate and speed for this theatrical material.

Also, is it really true that you can encode NTSC DVDs specifically with 24 fps, and not just with 23.976 fps (the progressive equivalent of interlaced 29.97 fps)? I never heard about that before... I thought the only two alternatives for NTSC DVD were 23.976 or 29.97.

*PAL: 25 frames-per-second (because of "PAL speedup", the audio and video will sound more higher-pitched and look like it's moving faster than either film or NTSC)

WaltWiz1901 wrote:



Just to be clear here, this isn't just an illusion which makes the footage "look like" it's moving faster. The video and audio really DOES play a full frame faster than film when encoded properly in PAL format. (I'm sure you know that, given the detailed reply you've posted; just found the wording a little confusing.) But of course; to most people, even this much of a difference is not very noticeable unless they sit down and actually compare the PAL source with an NTSC (or 24 fps film) source.
LuckyToon
7 years ago

That's good. So not only do I get a nice-looking transfer of Trap Happy Porky with the original titles restored, but I also finally get a DVD copy of The Lyin' Mouse, which I used to own on a VHS tape titled Looney Tunes Presents: Taz's Jungle Jams. Of course, it'll be the same print, but it's been so long since I last saw that one.

Originally Posted by: Jason Todd 



I still own the Taz' Jungle Jams video, so that means I now own 3 copies on VHS, DVD, and Blu Ray.
WaltWiz1901
7 years ago

Could've been a typo.

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



Maybe, but a typo of what? 24? DVDs (unlike Blu-rays) can't be encoded in that framerate.

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 


He meant a typo of the correct framerate.

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



Well, yeah, that's what I meant too. Why else do you think I said "24" in my reply? What I meant to ask was, "what framerate did he intend to type then"?

(For clarification: It's hard to believe that he intended to write 23.976 and ended up with 25... but intending to write 24 and accidentally typing 25 feels much more likely.)

For starters, the framerates we're discussing are:
*Film: 24 frames-per-second (most silent shorts were ran at 18 FPS, which cannot be properly replicated on either format)
*NTSC: 29-30 frames-per-second (material that runs at 24 FPS could be encoded in NTSC, but will be converted to 30 FPS during playback; the difference between either framerate should be virtually unnoticeable)

Originally Posted by: Toonatic 



Going from 24 fps to the slightly slower tempo of 23.976 fps is obviously far less noticeable than a whole frame faster, which is what you get with 25 fps PAL speedup. But still, there IS a difference. 24 fps is the only true, 100% correct framerate and speed for this theatrical material.

Also, is it really true that you can encode NTSC DVDs specifically with 24 fps, and not just with 23.976 fps (the progressive equivalent of interlaced 29.97 fps)? I never heard about that before... I thought the only two alternatives for NTSC DVD were 23.976 or 29.97.

*PAL: 25 frames-per-second (because of "PAL speedup", the audio and video will sound more higher-pitched and look like it's moving faster than either film or NTSC)

WaltWiz1901 wrote:



Just to be clear here, this isn't just an illusion which makes the footage "look like" it's moving faster. The video and audio really DOES play a full frame faster than film when encoded properly in PAL format. (I'm sure you know that, given the detailed reply you've posted; just found the wording a little confusing.) But of course; to most people, even this much of a difference is not very noticeable unless they sit down and actually compare the PAL source with an NTSC (or 24 fps film) source.

WaltWiz1901 wrote:


Although they will run at 30 frames-per-second while playing, I meant that many films on NTSC DVD are stored on the disc (and will look like they are playing) at the proper 24 FPS.

The difference between a NTSC transfer and a PAL transfer of a cartoon is, thus, more noticeable than that of a film transfer and a NTSC transfer (as I noted above, the audio is a pitch higher on a PAL transfer, and the video, as you pointed out, moves a full frame faster).
LuckyToon
7 years ago

Why should they be in 25 fps? Proper theatrical framerate is 24... and Warner's American Blu-ray releases have always used 23.976 fps (the equivalent of NTSC speed, i.e. 29.97 fps; or 30 fps if you want to simplify it). I wish they could have used 24 as that is the only truly correct speed. Same goes for Steve Stanchfield's Blu-rays... he always seems to be using 23.976.

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



Sorry, I meant 24fps. Anyways for some reason, the Blu Ray copy I own plays the bonus cartoons in 29-30fps instead of 24fps which I found weird. IDK why they made this mistake on the Blu Ray, but at least the DVD copy doesn't have that issue and are played in their correct 24fps frame rate.
Mesterius
7 years ago

Although they will run at 30 frames-per-second while playing, I meant that many films on NTSC DVD are stored on the disc (and will look like they are playing) at the proper 24 FPS.

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 



But that still sounds strange to me. To take an example: I have ripped a number of films from Warner's first Popeye DVD set to lossless digital files for my own use. These NTSC DVD files are all encoded progressively as 23.976 fps, not 24 fps. And of course, this 23.976 framerate will run as 29.97 fps (or 30 fps, in simplified form) when played back on a TV through a standard DVD player.

Are you sure you are not confusing the two framerates here? My impression is that many films on NTSC DVD are stored on the disc at 23.976 fps – not the exact 24.
Mesterius
7 years ago

Why should they be in 25 fps? Proper theatrical framerate is 24... and Warner's American Blu-ray releases have always used 23.976 fps (the equivalent of NTSC speed, i.e. 29.97 fps; or 30 fps if you want to simplify it). I wish they could have used 24 as that is the only truly correct speed. Same goes for Steve Stanchfield's Blu-rays... he always seems to be using 23.976.

Originally Posted by: LuckyToon 



Sorry, I meant 24fps. Anyways for some reason, the Blu Ray copy I own plays the bonus cartoons in 29-30fps instead of 24fps which I found weird. IDK why they made this mistake on the Blu Ray, but at least the DVD copy doesn't have that issue and are played in their correct 24fps frame rate.

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



Just for clarity: Does this mean in practical terms that the bonus cartoons as seen on the Blu-ray have visible interlacing problems, whereas the DVD versions are encoded - and play - progressively?

I still find it weird that they would be encoded at exactly 24 fps on a DVD. Especially considering that Warner Bros. doesn't even use 24 fps for their Blu-rays. Are you sure the exact framerate on the bonus cartoons isn't actually 23.976 fps? That framerate would give the same smooth, progressive playback.
WaltWiz1901
7 years ago

Although they will run at 30 frames-per-second while playing, I meant that many films on NTSC DVD are stored on the disc (and will look like they are playing) at the proper 24 FPS.

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



But that still sounds strange to me. To take an example: I have ripped a number of films from Warner's first Popeye DVD set to lossless digital files for my own use. These NTSC DVD files are all encoded progressively as 23.976 fps, not 24 fps. And of course, this 23.976 framerate will run as 29.97 fps (or 30 fps, in simplified form) when played back on a TV through a standard DVD player.

Are you sure you are not confusing the two framerates here? My impression is that many films on NTSC DVD are stored on the disc at 23.976 fps – not the exact 24.

Originally Posted by: WaltWiz1901 


I didn't realize they weren't exactly encoded at exactly 24 FPS. (Your "example" does sound legit, though!)
LuckyToon
7 years ago

Why should they be in 25 fps? Proper theatrical framerate is 24... and Warner's American Blu-ray releases have always used 23.976 fps (the equivalent of NTSC speed, i.e. 29.97 fps; or 30 fps if you want to simplify it). I wish they could have used 24 as that is the only truly correct speed. Same goes for Steve Stanchfield's Blu-rays... he always seems to be using 23.976.

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



Sorry, I meant 24fps. Anyways for some reason, the Blu Ray copy I own plays the bonus cartoons in 29-30fps instead of 24fps which I found weird. IDK why they made this mistake on the Blu Ray, but at least the DVD copy doesn't have that issue and are played in their correct 24fps frame rate.

Originally Posted by: LuckyToon 



Just for clarity: Does this mean in practical terms that the bonus cartoons as seen on the Blu-ray have visible interlacing problems, whereas the DVD versions are encoded - and play - progressively?

I still find it weird that they would be encoded at exactly 24 fps on a DVD. Especially considering that Warner Bros. doesn't even use 24 fps for their Blu-rays. Are you sure the exact framerate on the bonus cartoons isn't actually 23.976 fps? That framerate would give the same smooth, progressive playback.

Originally Posted by: Mesterius 



Yes, since it looks like the frame rate of what you see on an internet video. Again, IDK why for this mistake.
bodek610
7 years ago
As far as I know, the US version of Mouse Chronicles DVD is stored at 29,97fps. The EU one is stored at 25fps.

PopKorn Kat
7 years ago
One of the other moderators, Toadette, brought this thread's ongoing conversation about framerates to my attention. She thinks it's gotten out of hand...and I have to say that I agree with her. There's more than 10 posts talking about framerates in general and only three posts talking about the Mouse Chronicles DVD itself!

On her suggestion, I'm closing this thread. Besides, Jason's question was answered anyway, so there's really no need to go on about framerates in general. Feel free to continue the conversation elsewhere.
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