Popeye The Sailor The 1940's Volume 3 This September!!!- Page 3 - Forum.
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az0o0o0zi  
#41 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 4:26:06 AM(UTC)
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disclaimer

Umm... guys. Can you read this disclaimer please? And explain to me what do they mean by this?
Thad Komorowski  
#42 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 4:56:56 AM(UTC)
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The negatives of a film shot in a three-strip process are in... three separation strips: magenta, yellow, and, cyan. Combine them all to get the final results. In the case of "A Wolf in Sheik's Clothing", the magenta strip was lost, that's why the final restoration seen here lacks those colors compared to all the other cartoons where they did have them.
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az0o0o0zi on 9/14/2019(UTC), PopKorn Kat on 9/14/2019(UTC), Jason Todd on 9/15/2019(UTC), Lee B on 9/18/2019(UTC)
az0o0o0zi  
#43 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 5:06:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski Go to Quoted Post
The negatives of a film shot in a three-strip process are in... three separation strips: magenta, yellow, and, cyan. Combine them all to get the final results. In the case of "A Wolf in Sheik's Clothing", the magenta strip was lost, that's why the final restoration seen here lacks those colors compared to all the other cartoons where they did have them.


Disclaimer 2

Can you explain to me what do they mean by this?
az0o0o0zi  
#44 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 5:48:18 AM(UTC)
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Tv version vs Blu-ray version
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Ken Layton on 9/14/2019(UTC)
Mesterius  
#45 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 5:49:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski Go to Quoted Post
When they made cheater pictures, they of course didn't and couldn't go back to the original neg just to slice out bits and pieces. Not feasible, and if they did, the negs for those original cartoons would be in shreds. I think the two-reelers in general look a little juiced up on the original DVDs, but they're not vandalized and at least they're not faded.


That makes complete sense. But I never meant to ask if they had used the original Aladdin neg back when making "Popeye's Premiere" in the late 40s. What I was trying to hint at in my previous comment was, can it in any way be possible that WAC edited in the Aladdin footage from a different source when doing their restoration of "Popeye's Premiere"?
az0o0o0zi  
#46 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 5:51:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski Go to Quoted Post
The negatives of a film shot in a three-strip process are in... three separation strips: magenta, yellow, and, cyan. Combine them all to get the final results. In the case of "A Wolf in Sheik's Clothing", the magenta strip was lost, that's why the final restoration seen here lacks those colors compared to all the other cartoons where they did have them.


Oh well. I guess “A Wolf in Sheik’s Clothing” is semi restored.
Mesterius  
#47 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 6:03:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: az0o0o0zi Go to Quoted Post
disclaimer

Originally Posted by: az0o0o0zi Go to Quoted Post
Disclaimer 2


Very interesting. I guess if a full-color print of "A Wolf in Sheik's Clothing" exists anywhere, it would have to be a first-generation positive print from the original release. Maybe that could have been the optimal way to restore this film, but I can imagine it's hard to find.
Einhander  
#48 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 6:30:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Leviathan Go to Quoted Post
Clip for Olive Oyl for President




Weirdly, they changed the closing cue. Did someone at WAC think the closing cue was an a.a.p. alteration and "fix" it?

It's an easy fix at the DIY level, since as it turns out All's Fair At The Fair uses the same closing cue. But it's weird that the one cartoon that should have the a.a.p. closing cue doesn't anymore.


I've always wondered why A.A.P chose that particular end cue anyways. Out of every other ending cue they could have used, they chose the most depressing sounding one.
The abrupt cuts in the audio didin't help either, in fact, I think it made it worse.
Pasko  
#49 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 7:25:29 AM(UTC)
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Well, this A Wolf in Sheik's Clothing predicament is interesting. The fact that the third separation element is missing was not something previously known, so I thought the TV prints were just really badly faded copies. However, they're obviously not, so this is like having a Cinecolor-produced Popeye also timed for Cinecolor - 1940s animation, 1930s colors. Oh well, they couldn't have done any better and it still looks miles better than those mentioned TV prints.

As for the audio mistake on 'President, why doesn't anyone at Warner Archive check these things before they produce copies of cartoons which will be in use for decades? Again the differences in the extremely high standards for the visuals and low standards for the audios can be observed.
Pasko  
#50 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 7:28:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
What I was trying to hint at in my previous comment was, can it in any way be possible that WAC edited in the Aladdin footage from a different source when doing their restoration of "Popeye's Premiere"?


Well, what would have been the other source, the 1939 negative of Aladdin? Don't be silly, they would not scan that negative in 4K just to supplement the visuals of the 1949 cheater already sourced from another negative.

Edited by user Saturday, September 14, 2019 7:29:13 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Mesterius  
#51 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 7:29:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pasko Go to Quoted Post
As for the audio mistake on 'President, why doesn't anyone at Warner Archive check these things before they produce copies of cartoons which will be in use for decades? Again the differences in the extremely high standards for the visuals and low standards for the audios can be observed.


I have to agree. I thought this was the kind of stuff Jerry and George Feltenstein were working closely together on to prevent from happening.
Mesterius  
#52 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 7:35:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pasko Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
What I was trying to hint at in my previous comment was, can it in any way be possible that WAC edited in the Aladdin footage from a different source when doing their restoration of "Popeye's Premiere"?


Well, what would have been the other source, the 1939 negative of Aladdin? Don't be silly, they would not scan that negative in 4K just to supplement the visuals of the 1949 cheater already sourced from another negative.


I agree that scenario doesn't sound particularly likely. It was more a thought than anything else. Still, the differences in color between the new and old footage are interesting. My very first thought when viewing the Popeye's Premiere YouTube upload was that they might have sourced the Aladdin clips from their late-2000s HD restoration of the two-reeler. But then I compared with the DVD edition and the colors there look much more saturated.
Ken Layton  
#53 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 11:13:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pasko Go to Quoted Post
Well, this A Wolf in Sheik's Clothing predicament is interesting. The fact that the third separation element is missing was not something previously known, so I thought the TV prints were just really badly faded copies. However, they're obviously not, so this is like having a Cinecolor-produced Popeye also timed for Cinecolor - 1940s animation, 1930s colors. Oh well, they couldn't have done any better and it still looks miles better than those mentioned TV prints.



I wonder if they could have "faked" the missing magenta record? I remember reading about 30 years ago in American Cinematographer magazine about a restoration of a Technicolor film (I forget which film) where the negative was missing a color. They duped one of the other colors and applied the missing color to that color and re-combined it all and produced acceptable results.

A Wolf in Sheik's Clothing could have been lost forever had they not gone into the vaults for this restoration. Finding damaged or deteriorated negatives is not good. Once the damage is done to a negative, it sure can be a real problem to straighten it out to get acceptable results, if it's even possible in some cases. Fortunately, this cartoon was "rescued" just in time. Granted, it is missing the magenta strip, but it is so much better than existing prints being broadcast now.

Edited by user Saturday, September 14, 2019 11:36:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

VoiceTalentBrendan  
#54 Posted : Saturday, September 14, 2019 11:36:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ken Layton Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Pasko Go to Quoted Post
Well, this A Wolf in Sheik's Clothing predicament is interesting. The fact that the third separation element is missing was not something previously known, so I thought the TV prints were just really badly faded copies. However, they're obviously not, so this is like having a Cinecolor-produced Popeye also timed for Cinecolor - 1940s animation, 1930s colors. Oh well, they couldn't have done any better and it still looks miles better than those mentioned TV prints.



I wonder if they could have "faked" the missing magenta record? I remember reading about 30 years ago in American Cinematographer magazine about a restoration of a Technicolor film (I forget which film) where the negative was missing a color. They duped one of the other colors and applied the missing color to that color and re-combined it all and produced acceptable results.




Disney did that with Pollyanna

HeySteve  
#55 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2019 2:04:06 AM(UTC)
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I received my copy today and will be watching it tonight.
az0o0o0zi  
#56 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2019 2:51:06 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HeySteve Go to Quoted Post
I received my copy today and will be watching it tonight.


Can you please send us a picture of the back cover of Popeye the Sailor: The 1940s, Volume 3 Blu-ray please?
az0o0o0zi  
#57 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2019 3:23:54 AM(UTC)
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Here are the comparisons between TV version and the Blu-ray version.

Blu-ray version is on the left, and the TV version is on the right.

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
HeySteve  
#58 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2019 5:03:16 AM(UTC)
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UserPostedImage

I don’t know if what I posted actually works as the image is not loading when I click on it.

Edited by user Sunday, September 15, 2019 5:20:29 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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az0o0o0zi on 9/15/2019(UTC)
az0o0o0zi  
#59 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2019 5:27:19 AM(UTC)
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I fixed the picture.
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HeySteve on 9/15/2019(UTC)
HeySteve  
#60 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2019 8:19:11 AM(UTC)
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I just finished watching the set. Just like the previous 2 volumes, these are outstanding restorations. Even “A Wolf in Sheik’s Clothing” looks outstanding given what surviving elements WAC had to work with. But, just like the first 2 volumes, there are some major imperfections when it comes to the audio. Aside from the reveal that the closing music cue for “Olive Oyl for President” was altered, there are some very noticeable errors as you get deeper into this set. “A Balmy Swami”, “Tar with a Star” and “Silly Hillbilly” all have the 1943-1947 opening music cue in place of the correct one. As a result, the opening music cue starts over a blank screen before it fades to the Paramount logo on these 3 cartoons. Also, “A Balmy Swami” and “Silly Hillbilly” both have the closing music cue from “Abusement Park”. Perhaps WAC did a bit of a rush job to get this one out when the majority of us were expecting this set to release near the end of the year. But, nitpicking aside, I definitely recommend this set and hope that enough copies sell so that the 1950’s Vol. 1 gets released.
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