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WaltWiz1901  
#81 Posted : Monday, June 24, 2019 4:14:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Einhander Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
It's 2019, we could have any animated short film released through a streaming platform that doesn't degrade the image quality (like Amazon Video, iTunes, or better...) and available separately at the cost of few dollars each.
......
I never understood why the studios are so bureaucratic: classic animation content available through streaming platforms is the same already available in physical releases with the exception of relatively few TV prints in Boomerang platform not released on a regular basis.

In terms of physical vs digital/streaming, there's also this scenario to consider:

Some cartoon offends somebody for some stupid reason, said stupid person will then try to contact the service itself to remove the cartoon. Service will remove cartoon, making it unavalible on the service, forever (unless they decide to put it back, which is highly unlikely).

Or consider the Copyright/licensing issues that could arise. This happens alot in online game stores. I'm trying to say that digital/Streaming is just an unrealiable short term solution for viewing. At any moment, your favorite show/movie/cartoon/game will be taken away from you because the company owner wants/has to do so. It's an unstable time bomb that can explode at anytime. It's especially concerining in today's fickle political climate.

With physical media, provided that you are a competent human being, it can last for more than a lifetime.

Oh yeah, and I don't think you need an internet connection to watch your Blu-Ray's.

Physical media is not dead, at least for now. While it is dying, it's not as dead as people say it is.

Amen to all of that.

And about the parts of fulano's quote that I kept and bolded...how would the visual (and to a lesser extent, aural) quality of a short/movie/episode remain the same on a streaming platform when the codecs most of them use are lower in quality than - say - the ones utilized on most Blu-rays? What about lossless audio, true HD resolution (no heavy compression like on YouTube or the like), and bonus features? How would a die-hard fan be able to learn more about a specific short without any commentaries (to name *some examples*) to access or books in their possession?

I don't understand why many people prefer digital/streaming over physical media; it's a big step backward.
Mesterius  
#82 Posted : Monday, June 24, 2019 4:28:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kristjan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Lee B Go to Quoted Post
A quick note about the missing shot from Popeye and the Pirates...here's a frame from the DVD version (I'm stuck at work today and don't have Blu Ray capability here)...

I have no idea what Popeye would have pulled out of his top if the shot still existed, but you can see in this one frame that he wouldn't have been nude, but is wearing his sailor suit underneath the dress. (His collar is showing through.)


If he originally did end up just in his sailor suit but not nude after removing that female drab. Then this cut is even weirder than it actually is. Unless when undress he goes too far and ends up nude at some point. However, you did think that when this cut was done that they did try to make it less obvious unless it was done at the last minute prior to its theatrical release.


I think the scene was cut because of the humor itself being deemed too risqué, not because he would end up nude.
Lee B  
#83 Posted : Monday, June 24, 2019 9:52:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kristjan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Lee B Go to Quoted Post
A quick note about the missing shot from Popeye and the Pirates...here's a frame from the DVD version (I'm stuck at work today and don't have Blu Ray capability here)...

I have no idea what Popeye would have pulled out of his top if the shot still existed, but you can see in this one frame that he wouldn't have been nude, but is wearing his sailor suit underneath the dress. (His collar is showing through.)


If he originally did end up just in his sailor suit but not nude after removing that female drab. Then this cut is even weirder than it actually is. Unless when undress he goes too far and ends up nude at some point. However, you did think that when this cut was done that they did try to make it less obvious unless it was done at the last minute prior to its theatrical release.


I think the scene was cut because of the humor itself being deemed too risqué, not because he would end up nude.



For the record, I agree with YOU. I had a vague recollection that someone else had previously suggested that brief "nudity" might have been the reason for the cut, and after seeing the shot of his uniform sticking out, I figured I'd debunk the nudity thing. I may be remembering it wrong, but I really thought I had seen someone say that somewhere.


Thad Komorowski  
#84 Posted : Monday, June 24, 2019 8:22:58 PM(UTC)
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I can't believe that anyone who has seen how incompetent/lying corporations can be would actually be in favor of having those incompetent, lying corporations even more in control of content through streaming.
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Leviathan  
#85 Posted : Monday, June 24, 2019 10:42:15 PM(UTC)
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Getting back on topic, will you be doing a review?
Mesterius  
#86 Posted : Monday, June 24, 2019 11:33:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Lee B Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mesterius Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kristjan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Lee B Go to Quoted Post
A quick note about the missing shot from Popeye and the Pirates...here's a frame from the DVD version (I'm stuck at work today and don't have Blu Ray capability here)...

I have no idea what Popeye would have pulled out of his top if the shot still existed, but you can see in this one frame that he wouldn't have been nude, but is wearing his sailor suit underneath the dress. (His collar is showing through.)


If he originally did end up just in his sailor suit but not nude after removing that female drab. Then this cut is even weirder than it actually is. Unless when undress he goes too far and ends up nude at some point. However, you did think that when this cut was done that they did try to make it less obvious unless it was done at the last minute prior to its theatrical release.


I think the scene was cut because of the humor itself being deemed too risqué, not because he would end up nude.


For the record, I agree with YOU. I had a vague recollection that someone else had previously suggested that brief "nudity" might have been the reason for the cut, and after seeing the shot of his uniform sticking out, I figured I'd debunk the nudity thing. I may be remembering it wrong, but I really thought I had seen someone say that somewhere.



That might be... it's often exactly how a rumor like this gets started. But I can't imagine that Famous would have even considered actually depicting Popeye nude. And this kind of "implied" undressing scene has been played for laughs in more than one classic Hollywood cartoon over the years (I specifically remember Daffy doing it in an early Warner Bros. short).
fulano7  
#87 Posted : Tuesday, June 25, 2019 12:20:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Einhander Go to Quoted Post
Quote:

Upgraded versions could be made available through a platform like iTunes.

In fact, any golden age cartoon shorts release is damned to (relatively) low sales (low if compared to recent releases like mainstream movies; high if compared with similar archive releases) and in my opinion, doesn't make sense. The way Warner announces the Archive upcoming Blurays/DVDs, implying that fans have to desperately support classic animation buying the sets and implying that they are doing a nearly non-profit release is also pathetic - we are being entitled to support an already almost-dead product platform.

It's 2019, we could have any animated short film released through a streaming platform that doesn't degrade the image quality (like Amazon Video, iTunes, or better...) and available separately at the cost of few dollars each. I mean... Look at Spotify and iTunes itself. In 2019 I can listen to/buy any track by the Beatles or Led Zeppelin, or Black Sabbath... Of course sometimes not everything of an artist is available, and for audiophiles and me included the newer masterings are inferior. But... Good news: it's simpler with short films than with music. I never understood why the studios are so bureaucratic: classic animation content available through streaming platforms is the same already available in physical releases with the exception of relatively few TV prints in Boomerang platform not released on a regular basis. It's 2019 and the major studio executives at Warner didn't understand that physical releases aren't mandatory and we could have much more classic shorts released if the costs of physical releases were cut. And in addition, available prints would be much easier and more flexible to upgrade or fix.

On the matter of the antiquatedness of physical releases, I like to quote the former Oracle Inc. President Larry Ellison back in 1996:

Larry Ellison wrote:
I hate the PC with a passion. Me going down to the store and buying Windows 95, I've got to get into my car drive down to a store buy a cardboard box full of bits you know encoded on a piece of plastic CDROM and you bring it home and read a manual install this thing - you must be kidding you know, put the stuff on the net - it's bits, don't put bits in cardboard, cardboard in trucks, trucks to stores, me go to the store, you know, pick the stuff out, it's insane. OK I love the Internet - I want information you know it flows across the wire.


I hate the Bluray and DVD with a passion...



In terms of physical vs digital/streaming, there's also this scenario to consider:

Some cartoon offends somebody for some stupid reason, said stupid person will then try to contact the service itself to remove the cartoon. Service will remove cartoon, making it unavalible on the service, forever (unless they decide to put it back, which is highly unlikely).

Or consider the copyright/licensing issues that could arise. This happens alot in online game store marketplaces. I'm trying to say that digital/streaming is just an unrealiable short term solution for viewing. At any moment, your favorite show/movie/cartoon/game could be taken away from you because the company owner wants/has to do so. It's an unstable time bomb that can explode at anytime. It's especially concerning in today's fickle political climate.

With physical media, provided that you are a competent human being, it can last you for more than a lifetime.

Oh yeah, and I don't think you need an internet connection to watch your Blu-Ray's.

Physical media is not dead, at least for now. While it is dying, it's not as dead as people say it is.

Look, I don't hate streaming, it's a very convenient method to watch anything on. But I don't embrace it as a future. It should be part of an option, but it shouldn't be the only option.


Okay, I'm still standing with my POV in the sense that streaming-exclusive releases would offer the possibility of much more classic shorts available than 14/15 shorts per year. With streaming-exclusive release we could think about a LTGC vol. 7, for example. And I'd rather watch good quality shorts in a digital platform than not be able to watch them anywhere in good quality.

On the problems of content availability: making the content available in its full form, uncut, is a choice of the copyright owner, exclusively. If we are fearing unavailability or edited content, it's because the major distributors chose to handle streaming services like pay television channels instead of treating digital platform as a full-capability selling platform. I for myself don't have high expectations about Disney's streaming service and the availability of classic animation though such service... But what prevents Disney from putting all of its archive available uncut though the platform (in a collector-aimed section, with disclaimers about innapropriate content)? Nothing, only themselves. Cut offending scenes from movies or keeping them in moratorium are management decisions that I'm also not okay with. To prevent average customers of getting offended there could be a collector-exclusive section behind a paywall with disclaimers and everything.

The unavailability problem also arises when the streaming owner isn't the copyrights owner of the content: Amazon Video and Netflix actually buy Warner content, for example. But in the case of a Warner-owned service, this problem would not exist.

On the problem of internet availability, the customer should have the choice to download the content to be able to watch offline. Many comic books in the main platform (Comixology), for instance, even allow a DRM-free download.

On the problem of picture and audio quality, the latest LTPC realeases offered a lossy mono that fits perfectly in a streaming. And about the picture quality, Nowadays, it's impracticable to stream 50GB of a bluray, but compression algorithms can handle a 1080p picture stream to an acceptable quality level that is much superior than a DVD, true high definition and with neglectable differences between a streamed version and a bluray version (transparent encode).

I do recognize however that in the current streaming scenario, blurays offer fundamental guarantees that digital platforms don't, and overall bluray quality is superior.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 25, 2019 12:26:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I always come to TTTP in Exile in the hope of finding news about Warner announcing Tex Avery Collection.
Lee B  
#88 Posted : Tuesday, June 25, 2019 1:48:45 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
But in the case of a Warner-owned service, this problem would not exist.




You mean like when they pulled the Popeyes with racial caricatures down from the Boomerang site?

But no one can deny me the ability to watch "Pop Pie A la Mode" now that I have the disc.

(See how I kept this sort of on topic?)


I'm a dinosaur when it comes to this stuff, but I think Thad was spot on. I'm more than happy to watch a streamed version of a current show, like a new episode of "Our Cartoon President" or something I consider equally disposable. One viewing and I forget it. At this point physical media or downloadable media you can store on your own system are really the only ways to guarantee yourself a reliable archiving of the content for long term. I'm glad that WAC is offering this material on DVD and Blu ray.

Mesterius  
#89 Posted : Tuesday, June 25, 2019 2:56:08 AM(UTC)
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On the subject of Popeye and the Pirates, Jerry Beck posted an extremely interesting piece on Cartoon Research today where he tries to analyze exactly what the cut scene might have contained. He also gives some detail information about their researching the master materials for the new Blu-ray release.

Not having seen the film myself (and preferring to wait until I get the Blu-ray), I also appreciated Jerry posting the exact "before" and "after" frames where the cut occurs. I had imagined the edit to be obvious, but not THIS hilariously obvious:

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Leviathan  
#90 Posted : Tuesday, June 25, 2019 2:57:46 AM(UTC)
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Censor calls of the era were always whimsical. Remember that they objected to Bugs Bunny shooting the dog in "Hare Ribbin'" but not him shooting the audience member in "Rhapsody Rabbit".

Gabrielkat1991  
#91 Posted : Tuesday, June 25, 2019 4:49:45 AM(UTC)
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Blu-ray.com review for Popeye the Sailor: The 1940s, Volume 2: https://www.blu-ray.com/...2-Blu-ray/238783/#Review
"The dirty f**k!" - Bosko
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Leviathan  
#92 Posted : Tuesday, June 25, 2019 11:09:49 PM(UTC)
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That's a real nice thorough review.
Ken Layton  
#93 Posted : Friday, June 28, 2019 11:24:15 AM(UTC)
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Some screen shots from Fistic Mystic.

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HeySteve  
#94 Posted : Saturday, June 29, 2019 7:57:28 PM(UTC)
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Almost 2 weeks since release and Amazon still hasn’t received any stock to fill orders. I have also been following the discussion thread on the Blu-Ray forum and people have said that Amazon has been having issues receiving stock for MOD titles in general.

The good news is, this morning I checked Best Buy and they were showing that they have stock and the price is the same as Amazon, but shipping came out to be a little bit cheaper. I placed an order and they are estimating that I will receive it on July 8. Once I receive confirmation that my order has shipped (probably sometime between Monday and Tuesday), I will then cancel my order with Amazon, and probably not order any MOD titles from them in the future.
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Ken Layton  
#95 Posted : Saturday, June 29, 2019 9:46:17 PM(UTC)
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It's a pity that scamazon can't seem to get their act together. Keeping things in stock should be a priority for any business.
DawnShadow  
#96 Posted : Sunday, June 30, 2019 2:20:59 PM(UTC)
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George confirmed on the latest Warner Archive podcast that Vol. 3 is indeed coming and they have already started started work on it :)
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Duck Dodgers  
#97 Posted : Sunday, June 30, 2019 3:22:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DawnShadow Go to Quoted Post
George confirmed on the latest Warner Archive podcast that Vol. 3 is indeed coming and they have already started started work on it :)


Great! The next volume will end the 40s. I suggest the 50s should have to be in one/two volumes, no more, because they do not have a great appeal.
Anyway, it would be nice to start releasing MGM and WB shorts now.....

The Warner Archive podcast can be listened somewhere on the web?I'd like to know about future Archives releases.

Leviathan  
#98 Posted : Monday, July 1, 2019 2:00:19 AM(UTC)
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I heard it too. Damn, Volume 2 is not even two weeks old.

Since George Feltenstein emphasized how laborious and expensive the restoration process is, WAC had to be happy with Volume 2's sales.

Edited by user Monday, July 1, 2019 2:04:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Mesterius  
#99 Posted : Monday, July 1, 2019 7:30:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Duck Dodgers Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DawnShadow Go to Quoted Post
George confirmed on the latest Warner Archive podcast that Vol. 3 is indeed coming and they have already started started work on it :)


Great! The next volume will end the 40s. I suggest the 50s should have to be in one/two volumes, no more, because they do not have a great appeal.
Anyway, it would be nice to start releasing MGM and WB shorts now.....

The Warner Archive podcast can be listened somewhere on the web?I'd like to know about future Archives releases.



The Warner Archive Podcast is actually available for free on MANY websites. Here's the first one that popped up on Google: https://play.acast.com/s...ew_releases_20190625.mp3
Ken Layton  
#100 Posted : Monday, July 1, 2019 10:36:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DawnShadow Go to Quoted Post
George confirmed on the latest Warner Archive podcast that Vol. 3 is indeed coming and they have already started work on it :)


That is GREAT news! I can't wait to see how the Polacolor cartoons look.

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