Popeye The Sailor - The 1940's Volume 2 is coming- Page 4 - Forum.
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.
7 Pages«<23456>»
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Ken Layton  
#61 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2019 1:12:28 PM(UTC)
Ken Layton

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/22/2014(UTC)
Posts: 100
Man
United States

Thanks: 57 times
Was thanked: 185 time(s) in 46 post(s)
More from Safari So Good. I think the ink and paint department must have used every single color of paints they had in this cartoon!

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Edited by user Friday, June 21, 2019 1:16:24 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 5 users thanked Ken Layton for this useful post.
Gabrielkat1991 on 6/21/2019(UTC), Jason Todd on 6/22/2019(UTC), WaltWiz1901 on 6/22/2019(UTC), MTGM on 6/24/2019(UTC), Lee B on 6/24/2019(UTC)
Ken Layton  
#62 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2019 1:58:33 PM(UTC)
Ken Layton

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/22/2014(UTC)
Posts: 100
Man
United States

Thanks: 57 times
Was thanked: 185 time(s) in 46 post(s)
I did a few more from Peep in the Deep (DVD version). Look closely at the mermaid busts near Bluto. Are there nipples on them???? Sure looks like one of them does.

UserPostedImage

Bluto as snake

Nipples on mermaids?

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

A sea monster

It would be nice if someone did side-by-side comparisons of the existing tv prints and my screenshots from the dvd.

Edited by user Friday, June 21, 2019 2:06:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 2 users thanked Ken Layton for this useful post.
WaltWiz1901 on 6/22/2019(UTC), Lee B on 6/24/2019(UTC)
Leviathan  
#63 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2019 7:02:22 PM(UTC)
Leviathan

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/29/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
United States

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 74 time(s) in 27 post(s)
Hey, I was right about Safari being the first to use the "Color By Technicolor" credit.
thanks 1 user thanked Leviathan for this useful post.
MTGM on 6/24/2019(UTC)
Leviathan  
#64 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2019 7:27:12 PM(UTC)
Leviathan

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/29/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
United States

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 74 time(s) in 27 post(s)
Ken, you wanted comparisons?

Peep in particular has some of the worst color timing of any Turner print. Some shots are okay facsimiles of the original color, others are so dark you can't even make out any detail (the shot with Bluto made up like a snake being the worst of it. The gag is coherent now).

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user thanked Leviathan for this useful post.
WaltWiz1901 on 6/22/2019(UTC)
Gabrielkat1991  
#65 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2019 12:05:41 AM(UTC)
Gabrielkat1991

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/20/2015(UTC)
Posts: 35
Man
Canada
Location: Port Bevis Loop,

Thanks: 20 times
Was thanked: 14 time(s) in 9 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Leviathan Go to Quoted Post
Hey, I was right about Safari being the first to use the "Color By Technicolor" credit.


So that would make Wotta Knight the last Popeye cartoon to use the "in Technicolor" credit.
"The dirty f**k!" - Bosko
Leviathan  
#66 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2019 1:32:56 AM(UTC)
Leviathan

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/29/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
United States

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 74 time(s) in 27 post(s)
I have the set in my hands and I'm going through that.

My report (to be amended):

- Fistic Mystic, Royal Four-Flusher and Rodeo Romeo have generic ending cues, (which we knew). But so does The Island Fling.
- Rocket to Mars and All's Fair At The Fair are grainier and a little softer than the other shorts, as if WB transferred them from print and not the negatives. Actually since both the affected shorts are Cinecolor, it could just be a Cinecolor thing.
- Service With a Guile is the first short to use the modern Famous Studios logo.
- Every other cartoon has its original closing cue.
- Peep in the Deep's restoration completely changes the mood of the opening. It starts at dawn (not night like the Turner print would have you believe), and Bluto is hiding in a rope, which turns into a rattlesnake's coils. This gag is completely obscured in the TV print.

The set is real solid. Any quibbles are down to Paramount and aap's neglect of the original elements and in the case of Popeye and the Pirates, the Hayes Office. I just wished WAC did a better job of reconstructing the ending cues for the four shorts that needed them.

EDIT: One more oddity. All's Fair At The Fair has the exact same cue as Olive Oyl For President (the cue aap spliced onto all the Technicolor Popeyes), including the last two notes aap didn't use. I'm curious about that; was it another reconstruction or did Famous use the same cue for two consecutive cartoons. FWIW, the Turner print splices in the cue from Abusement Park.

Edited by user Saturday, June 22, 2019 2:33:02 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 3 users thanked Leviathan for this useful post.
HeySteve on 6/22/2019(UTC), WaltWiz1901 on 6/22/2019(UTC), Jason Todd on 6/22/2019(UTC)
Leviathan  
#67 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2019 2:46:15 AM(UTC)
Leviathan

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/29/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
United States

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 74 time(s) in 27 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Gabrielkat1991 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Leviathan Go to Quoted Post
Hey, I was right about Safari being the first to use the "Color By Technicolor" credit.


So that would make Wotta Knight the last Popeye cartoon to use the "in Technicolor" credit.


You'd be correct.

It's probably the nicest-looking short on the whole disc. Almost no generational loss from the cels and background. That one and Safari So Good also have the most intense blues and greens of any of the restorations so far.

Edited by user Saturday, June 22, 2019 2:49:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Pasko  
#68 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2019 2:55:07 AM(UTC)
Pasko

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/25/2019(UTC)
Posts: 9
Man

Thanks: 3 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
It's a shame to hear about (at least) four cartoons having the wrong audio. What this also means is that the audio masters used for the restorations were of lesser quality and so the audio is tinny. For Better or Nurse was by far the worst-sounding cartoon on Vol. 1 if we disregard the ravaged albeit original track for the Anvil Chorus Girl.

Originally Posted by: Leviathan Go to Quoted Post

EDIT: One more oddity. All's Fair At The Fair has the exact same cue as Olive Oyl For President (the cue aap spliced onto all the Technicolor Popeyes), including the last two notes aap didn't use. I'm curious about that; was it another reconstruction or did Famous use the same cue for two consecutive cartoons. FWIW, the Turner print splices in the cue from Abusement Park.


On the version I've seen (available online), that cartoon has its unique ending which fades out abruptly (probably a splice in the print), so that would be another reconstruction.

Edited by user Saturday, June 22, 2019 2:56:48 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Leviathan  
#69 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2019 2:58:41 AM(UTC)
Leviathan

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/29/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
United States

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 74 time(s) in 27 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Pasko Go to Quoted Post

On the version I've seen (available online), that cartoon has its unique ending which fades out abruptly (probably a splice in the print), so that would be another reconstruction.


That's a weirdness, because aap never tampered with the Cinecolor cartoon soundtracks.

Edited by user Saturday, June 22, 2019 3:02:58 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Thad Komorowski  
#70 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2019 9:42:36 AM(UTC)
Thad Komorowski

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/8/2015(UTC)
Posts: 53

Thanks: 9 times
Was thanked: 163 time(s) in 38 post(s)
What you hear for All’s Fair at the Fair is exactly how the raw track is, unaltered, just as it is for the other complete cartoons. I was surprised that it was exactly the same as Olive Oyl for President, too, but stranger things happen.

I was under the impression the track for The Island Fling had been found in the same private holdings House Tricks? was. Evidently it wasn’t.

After a herculean effort (and great expense), I did locate the tracks for Rodeo Romeo, Fistic Mystic, and The Royal Four-Flusher in Europe, but because they would have arrived and been transferred after WB wanted work on Vol. 2 wrapped, they were not used. (Credit is due to Jerry, Steve S., and myself for even trying to get them in time. No I will not post them, so don't ask.)

In restoration production, particularly with a large studio, there are hard delivery dates that are inflexible and a release date is not going to be pushed back to accommodate a few seconds of music, however critical that music be, sadly. Bear in mind, too, that repairing all the soundtracks to their 100% original state in time for a release may be impossible, given how manhandled these elements were over the last 70 years. But that still doesn't mean if these tracks turn up in the future that the archival master can't be upgraded. Annoying as this may sound (and believe me, I'm more annoyed by it in this particular case than any of you could possibly be), Popeye Vol. 2 is still worth buying, given the stratospheric upgrade in picture quality and the genuine entertainment value.

Edited by user Saturday, June 22, 2019 9:44:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 14 users thanked Thad Komorowski for this useful post.
vdubdavid on 6/22/2019(UTC), Leviathan on 6/22/2019(UTC), Ken Layton on 6/22/2019(UTC), Pasko on 6/22/2019(UTC), PopKorn Kat on 6/22/2019(UTC), Jason Todd on 6/22/2019(UTC), dbear on 6/22/2019(UTC), HeySteve on 6/22/2019(UTC), SuperMuppet64 on 6/22/2019(UTC), Mesterius on 6/22/2019(UTC), WaltWiz1901 on 6/23/2019(UTC), eutychus on 6/23/2019(UTC), MTGM on 6/24/2019(UTC), Lee B on 6/24/2019(UTC)
DawnShadow  
#71 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2019 10:00:21 AM(UTC)
DawnShadow

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/15/2017(UTC)
Posts: 26
Australia

Was thanked: 25 time(s) in 3 post(s)
Shame, would’ve thought Warner Archive would care more and not have to comply with such ridiculous rules.
Leviathan  
#72 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2019 10:49:02 AM(UTC)
Leviathan

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/29/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
United States

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 74 time(s) in 27 post(s)
Is there an explanation for the graininess of All's Fair and Rocket To Mars? Were they transferred from interpositives, or are the negatives just that soft and grainy?

IF we get to a Volume 3, here's hoping the original tracks can be included as bonuses.

Edited by user Saturday, June 22, 2019 11:00:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

vdubdavid  
#73 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2019 10:53:12 AM(UTC)
vdubdavid

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/20/2014(UTC)
Posts: 47

Thanks: 14 times
Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 6 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski Go to Quoted Post
What you hear for All’s Fair at the Fair is exactly how the raw track is, unaltered, just as it is for the other complete cartoons. I was surprised that it was exactly the same as Olive Oyl for President, too, but stranger things happen.

I was under the impression the track for The Island Fling had been found in the same private holdings House Tricks? was. Evidently it wasn’t.

After a herculean effort (and great expense), I did locate the tracks for Rodeo Romeo, Fistic Mystic, and The Royal Four-Flusher in Europe, but because they would have arrived and been transferred after WB wanted work on Vol. 2 wrapped, they were not used. (Credit is due to Jerry, Steve S., and myself for even trying to get them in time. No I will not post them, so don't ask.)

In restoration production, particularly with a large studio, there are hard delivery dates that are inflexible and a release date is not going to be pushed back to accommodate a few seconds of music, however critical that music be, sadly. Bear in mind, too, that repairing all the soundtracks to their 100% original state in time for a release may be impossible, given how manhandled these elements were over the last 70 years. But that still doesn't mean if these tracks turn up in the future that the archival master can't be upgraded. Annoying as this may sound (and believe me, I'm more annoyed by it in this particular case than any of you could possibly be), Popeye Vol. 2 is still worth buying, given the stratospheric upgrade in picture quality and the genuine entertainment value.


I'm still waiting for my copy to reach me, but this sort of straight talk about why certain aspects turned out as they did (whether for good or not) is something I really, really appreciate. It means I'll be able to focus more on letting the shorts entertain me rather than wondering why Short X couldn't be fully restored.

After Popeye Vol. 1, there was never any doubt in my mind that Volume 2 would be worth the money and these acknowledgements haven't changed that one bit.
ToonStar95  
#74 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2019 1:12:07 PM(UTC)
ToonStar95

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Researcher
Joined: 9/30/2014(UTC)
Posts: 592
Man
United States

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 142 time(s) in 110 post(s)
According to Amazon, I'll have my copy delivered between the end of July and mid-September.
Mesterius  
#75 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2019 5:13:00 PM(UTC)
Mesterius

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/14/2014(UTC)
Posts: 433

Thanks: 116 times
Was thanked: 223 time(s) in 114 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Leviathan Go to Quoted Post
What is your deal, Mesterius? You seem ready to jump down everybody's throat at all times.


What do you mean? I was just asking Ken whether the two films he mentioned have had problems with their soundtracks in earlier prints. I'm not as knowledgeable about the Famous Popeyes as many others in this forum, so I hadn't heard about the issues with them.
Lee B  
#76 Posted : Sunday, June 23, 2019 5:25:54 AM(UTC)
Lee B

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/23/2018(UTC)
Posts: 48
United States
Location: GA

Thanks: 44 times
Was thanked: 75 time(s) in 26 post(s)
A quick note about the missing shot from Popeye and the Pirates...here's a frame from the DVD version (I'm stuck at work today and don't have Blu Ray capability here)...

I have no idea what Popeye would have pulled out of his top if the shot still existed, but you can see in this one frame that he wouldn't have been nude, but is wearing his sailor suit underneath the dress. (His collar is showing through.)

Popeye Pirates
Leviathan  
#77 Posted : Sunday, June 23, 2019 9:49:24 AM(UTC)
Leviathan

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/29/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
United States

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 74 time(s) in 27 post(s)
Probably cannonballs, since the scene after the cut has Pierre with round swollen cheeks.

If we get to a Volume 3, thats going to be mostly Polacolor shorts. Also thats when the ending cues start becoming standardized and separate from the ending score of each cartoon, so reconstructions if needed will be far less messy.

Edited by user Sunday, June 23, 2019 9:50:05 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Kristjan  
#78 Posted : Sunday, June 23, 2019 8:32:49 PM(UTC)
Kristjan

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/16/2015(UTC)
Posts: 91

Thanks: 27 times
Was thanked: 18 time(s) in 11 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Lee B Go to Quoted Post
A quick note about the missing shot from Popeye and the Pirates...here's a frame from the DVD version (I'm stuck at work today and don't have Blu Ray capability here)...

I have no idea what Popeye would have pulled out of his top if the shot still existed, but you can see in this one frame that he wouldn't have been nude, but is wearing his sailor suit underneath the dress. (His collar is showing through.)


If he originally did end up just in his sailor suit but not nude after removing that female drab. Then this cut is even weirder than it actually is. Unless when undress he goes too far and ends up nude at some point. However, you did think that when this cut was done that they did try to make it less obvious unless it was done at the last minute prior to its theatrical release.
fulano7  
#79 Posted : Sunday, June 23, 2019 10:10:14 PM(UTC)
fulano7

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/23/2016(UTC)
Posts: 10
Man
Brazil

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 4 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Thad Komorowski Go to Quoted Post
What you hear for All’s Fair at the Fair is exactly how the raw track is, unaltered, just as it is for the other complete cartoons. I was surprised that it was exactly the same as Olive Oyl for President, too, but stranger things happen.

I was under the impression the track for The Island Fling had been found in the same private holdings House Tricks? was. Evidently it wasn’t.

After a herculean effort (and great expense), I did locate the tracks for Rodeo Romeo, Fistic Mystic, and The Royal Four-Flusher in Europe, but because they would have arrived and been transferred after WB wanted work on Vol. 2 wrapped, they were not used. (Credit is due to Jerry, Steve S., and myself for even trying to get them in time. No I will not post them, so don't ask.)

In restoration production, particularly with a large studio, there are hard delivery dates that are inflexible and a release date is not going to be pushed back to accommodate a few seconds of music, however critical that music be, sadly. Bear in mind, too, that repairing all the soundtracks to their 100% original state in time for a release may be impossible, given how manhandled these elements were over the last 70 years. But that still doesn't mean if these tracks turn up in the future that the archival master can't be upgraded. Annoying as this may sound (and believe me, I'm more annoyed by it in this particular case than any of you could possibly be), Popeye Vol. 2 is still worth buying, given the stratospheric upgrade in picture quality and the genuine entertainment value.


Upgraded versions could be made available through a platform like iTunes.

In fact, any golden age cartoon shorts release is damned to (relatively) low sales (low if compared to recent releases like mainstream movies; high if compared with similar archive releases) and in my opinion, doesn't make sense. The way Warner announces the Archive upcoming Blurays/DVDs, implying that fans have to desperately support classic animation buying the sets and implying that they are doing a nearly non-profit release is also pathetic - we are being entitled to support an already almost-dead product platform.

It's 2019, we could have any animated short film released through a streaming platform that doesn't degrade the image quality (like Amazon Video, iTunes, or better...) and available separately at the cost of few dollars each. I mean... Look at Spotify and iTunes itself. In 2019 I can listen to/buy any track by the Beatles or Led Zeppelin, or Black Sabbath... Of course sometimes not everything of an artist is available, and for audiophiles and me included the newer masterings are inferior. But... Good news: it's simpler with short films than with music. I never understood why the studios are so bureaucratic: classic animation content available through streaming platforms is the same already available in physical releases with the exception of relatively few TV prints in Boomerang platform not released on a regular basis. It's 2019 and the major studio executives at Warner didn't understand that physical releases aren't mandatory and we could have much more classic shorts released if the costs of physical releases were cut. And in addition, available prints would be much easier and more flexible to upgrade or fix.

On the matter of the antiquatedness of physical releases, I like to quote the former Oracle Inc. President Larry Ellison back in 1996:

Larry Ellison wrote:
I hate the PC with a passion. Me going down to the store and buying Windows 95, I've got to get into my car drive down to a store buy a cardboard box full of bits you know encoded on a piece of plastic CDROM and you bring it home and read a manual install this thing - you must be kidding you know, put the stuff on the net - it's bits, don't put bits in cardboard, cardboard in trucks, trucks to stores, me go to the store, you know, pick the stuff out, it's insane. OK I love the Internet - I want information you know it flows across the wire.


I hate the Bluray and DVD with a passion...

Edited by user Sunday, June 23, 2019 10:20:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: mistype

I always come to TTTP in Exile in the hope of finding news about Warner announcing Tex Avery Collection.
Einhander  
#80 Posted : Monday, June 24, 2019 12:33:02 AM(UTC)
Einhander

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/2/2018(UTC)
Posts: 58
United States

Thanks: 24 times
Was thanked: 30 time(s) in 13 post(s)
Quote:

Upgraded versions could be made available through a platform like iTunes.

In fact, any golden age cartoon shorts release is damned to (relatively) low sales (low if compared to recent releases like mainstream movies; high if compared with similar archive releases) and in my opinion, doesn't make sense. The way Warner announces the Archive upcoming Blurays/DVDs, implying that fans have to desperately support classic animation buying the sets and implying that they are doing a nearly non-profit release is also pathetic - we are being entitled to support an already almost-dead product platform.

It's 2019, we could have any animated short film released through a streaming platform that doesn't degrade the image quality (like Amazon Video, iTunes, or better...) and available separately at the cost of few dollars each. I mean... Look at Spotify and iTunes itself. In 2019 I can listen to/buy any track by the Beatles or Led Zeppelin, or Black Sabbath... Of course sometimes not everything of an artist is available, and for audiophiles and me included the newer masterings are inferior. But... Good news: it's simpler with short films than with music. I never understood why the studios are so bureaucratic: classic animation content available through streaming platforms is the same already available in physical releases with the exception of relatively few TV prints in Boomerang platform not released on a regular basis. It's 2019 and the major studio executives at Warner didn't understand that physical releases aren't mandatory and we could have much more classic shorts released if the costs of physical releases were cut. And in addition, available prints would be much easier and more flexible to upgrade or fix.

On the matter of the antiquatedness of physical releases, I like to quote the former Oracle Inc. President Larry Ellison back in 1996:

Larry Ellison wrote:
I hate the PC with a passion. Me going down to the store and buying Windows 95, I've got to get into my car drive down to a store buy a cardboard box full of bits you know encoded on a piece of plastic CDROM and you bring it home and read a manual install this thing - you must be kidding you know, put the stuff on the net - it's bits, don't put bits in cardboard, cardboard in trucks, trucks to stores, me go to the store, you know, pick the stuff out, it's insane. OK I love the Internet - I want information you know it flows across the wire.


I hate the Bluray and DVD with a passion...



In terms of physical vs digital/streaming, there's also this scenario to consider:

Some cartoon offends somebody for some stupid reason, said stupid person will then try to contact the service itself to remove the cartoon. Service will remove cartoon, making it unavalible on the service, forever (unless they decide to put it back, which is highly unlikely).

Or consider the copyright/licensing issues that could arise. This happens alot in online game store marketplaces. I'm trying to say that digital/streaming is just an unrealiable short term solution for viewing. At any moment, your favorite show/movie/cartoon/game could be taken away from you because the company owner wants/has to do so. It's an unstable time bomb that can explode at anytime. It's especially concerning in today's fickle political climate.

With physical media, provided that you are a competent human being, it can last you for more than a lifetime.

Oh yeah, and I don't think you need an internet connection to watch your Blu-Ray's.

Physical media is not dead, at least for now. While it is dying, it's not as dead as people say it is.

Look, I don't hate streaming, it's a very convenient method to watch anything on. But I don't embrace it as a future. It should be part of an option, but it shouldn't be the only option.

Edited by user Monday, June 24, 2019 4:27:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 6 users thanked Einhander for this useful post.
WaltWiz1901 on 6/24/2019(UTC), Mesterius on 6/24/2019(UTC), MTGM on 6/24/2019(UTC), SuperMuppet64 on 6/24/2019(UTC), VoiceTalentBrendan on 6/24/2019(UTC), Jason Todd on 6/24/2019(UTC)
Users browsing this topic
7 Pages«<23456>»
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error