OutOfOdor
a year ago
Hey, thanks!

By-the-by, what's the source on this quote? I looked up the statement you posted here on the Google but only got this very thread.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
a year ago
Thanks for the info! I would've suspected that cartoon was actually taken from the Krazytoons package, given their usual theme music, interesting that it was actually an Astra 'toon.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
a year ago
Thanks! Wouldn't surprise me if "Tray for Dog" is the TerryToon "Old Dog Tray".
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
a year ago
Additional note, I kinda' wonder if there's any Astra prints of live-action stuff out there - it seems they distributed a package called "Old Timer Comedies" with 300 or so silent comedies, as well as some Chaplin shorts - what I'd do to check out those prints someday...
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
a year ago
Found another Astra cartoon: "Felix Revolts", released in 1923. A distinctively Astra title card for it was found in an eBay listing, from a print duped to 8mm for home movie use by Atlas Films, itself another interesting film pirate.
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"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
a year ago

Found another Astra cartoon: "Felix Revolts", released in 1923. A distinctively Astra title card for it was found in an eBay listing, from a print duped to 8mm for home movie use by Atlas Films, itself another interesting film pirate.
UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 



I have Astras with identical title cards for Felix Trumps the Ace and "Tea Time"
OutOfOdor
a year ago
Keen! Thanks for yet another addition to the list.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
a year ago
That "In Diland" cartoon, looking at that photo, seems to me like it actually says "In Toyland". "Cat in Toyland", no doubt.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
a year ago
"Cat in Toyland"
OutOfOdor
a year ago
!!!!!
Thanks for the addition!
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
a year ago
Fancy that!
Thanks again!

Whilst goin' through the GAC forums, I found another one to add to the list: the Boyd La Vero "Marty the Monk" short "Mexically Lilly", which somebody acquired a print of 'way back when. I have no idea if the short was retitled on that person's Astra print or not.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
a year ago
oh, wow!

Thanks again! Nice to finally have an ID on this one.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
a year ago
Thanks for two more! Personally hope footage or screencaps for "Cats and Cats" turn up sometime so we can find out what it may be.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
a year ago

Thanks for two more! Personally hope footage or screencaps for "Cats and Cats" turn up sometime so we can find out what it may be.

Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 



As Ray Pointer once infamously asked when he was excluded from or passed over for something, "What about ME?!"

If memory serves, Cats and Cats is Cats in the Bag (1936) in the form of a silent Castle Films version with the intertitles cut out, and Sharples tracks laid over it.
OutOfOdor
a year ago
Whoops!!
Sorry about that, Tommy!
If I left you out, rest assured it wasn't out of malice, or deliberately ignoring you. If anything, I probably was a bit absent-minded and forgot my manners!

So if I've forgotten to give my gratitude of late: Thanks a mill! I've always genuinely appreciated your contributions to my threads, and it's always wonderful having someone who maintains a sizeable collection of these oddities around to chime in with some insightful information regarding these bootleg packages, or to correct an error on my behalf. Mahalo!

And thanks much for revealing what "Cats and Cats" is! The "Let's snip the dialogue cards out of these home movie prints and add some music that may or may not fit what's going on screen" saga continues...
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
a year ago
The pleasure is all mine. I'm amused that anyone else out there finds these packages to be fascinating, just as I do.
What's even funnier is there are seasoned cartoon curmudgeons seeing all this discussion of bootleg TV prints, thinking we're wasting our time on something completely pointless and should all be in a padded cell together. I love it. 🤣
OutOfOdor
a year ago
Yeah! The obscure, sometimes dubious packages of pre-existing cartoons (Whimseyland, Krazytoons, heck, even the Atlas/Carnival libraries of 8mm home movies if we're to include home movie companies into the mix) and whatnot from the early days of television have always intrigued me for a very long time - very much more so than the more legit ones from the same time period, NTA/UM&M, AAP and what have you. I guess it's a combination of multiple things that've made me gravitate to them, really.

The different cartoons from all different sources Morris Kleinerman and the anonymous proprietor of "Transvideo Artists" somehow dug up when compiling these packages, including some real oddities from obscure indie studios and what-have-you (silent Harman and Ising! Marty Monk! Bubble and Squeak!), for instance - that you've got to wonder how the heck they got ahold of them in the first place. There's a possibility that some of these bootleg prints might be the only surviving prints of certain films out there, and these dupers unwittingly preserved them for generations to come.

The air of mystery that surround the (admittedly sometimes weird or unfitting, like the "__ and ___" Astra/Cinepix loved, or "The Inventor" being the rename for "Felix Turns the Tide") new titles that these companies gave them, too - it's fun to ponder and guess what might be behind a title like "Junior Camera Bug" or "Tweety Tweet", and then, when you get a chance to watch the cartoon, or you stumble upon a print with the true name elsewhere, there's that "A-HA!" moment you get when you find out what it really is. And I love that.

The Kleinerman concern, in its various iterations, has probably been the one that's been of the most fascination for me, probably because I'm just so intrigued by the music cues they used (the non-Sharples ones, of course) - I'd love to know the source for many of them, like the score that frequently utilizes a soundalike of "The Dance of the Cuckoos" (y'know, the Laurel and Hardy theme) used on your print of "A King's Christmas", as an example, but that's probably because I'm a big production music nut as much as I am an animation fan (same reason I'm so infatuated with the Stuart/Guaranteed prints of Terry's Aesops and the R&TVP redrawns, as horrid as the latter are!).

Not to mention the fact there's so many different variants of these prints out there with different title cards, music beds - heck, the print of "Heavenly Daze" in your collection was actually one of the things I was most pleasantly surprised by when you resumed uploading cartoons to your YT a month or two ago, simply because it was a completely different version than the old print of it that's been floating around. All of that makes what is an admittedly VERY niche subject in television and animation history very fascinating to somebody like me!

Incidentally, Tommy! I believe I have you to thank for kick-starting my love for these bizarre prints. I'm sure I would've found out about the wonderful world of abruptly-ending Bosko cartoons and silent Castle Films prints of Terrytoons with the intertitles spliced out and scored with Winston Sharples music eventually if I hadn't, but I can't help but think that my first exposure to Astra and their kind was seeing the prints you had uploaded on your YouTube over a decade ago, and seeing you talk about them on your old blog. I can't thank you profusely for unwittingly introducing this young animation enthusiast to that strange, beautiful corner of animation history that is these shady, black-market television distributors.

And I hadn't even thought that there might've been some of THOSE folks lurking here and thinking the very same - but the thought of one of them reading this, and grumbling about those ding-dang youngins' blathering on about bootlegged prints of cartoons and dismissing it as pointless use of ones' time is a rather humorous one. Ha! How little they know.
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
a year ago
Oh, wow! Totally forgot Screen Attractions distributed Bonzos for a while. Thanks!
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
OutOfOdor
a year ago
No new cartoons this time around (with the exception of one that I've forgotten to add somehow 'til now!), but I've decided to overhaul the O.P. for this thread with some information about the Astra concern that I've somehow neglected to add to this thread for a while. Check it out!
"With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
Tommy Stathes
a year ago
It was in the Astra package, in the form of B&W-of-redrawn prints. I've had one or two such prints. Since Kleinerman was behind those early reissues, and was Modern Film Sales, Screen Attractions, Astra, etc., he threw whatever he had in his vaults into the Astra package. I was being a little facetious in asking where some of the new Doubting Thomas' are getting their strange information from...it's clearly not from firsthand 16mm handling, or from more traditional forms of primary research.

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