For anybody wondering how any of the Volume 1 restorations could have been if they were instead released with Volume 2 standards, we now have our answer. MeTV aired Daredevil Droopy earlier today and the copy they aired was in HD, yet for whatever reason it wasn't the same restoration on the Volume 1 disc. The copy they aired has similar issues as half of the cartoons on the Volume 2 disc, meaning murky colors, DVNR, and recycled Turner audio.








Evidently, the lackluster transfers on Volume 2 did not have to be as bad as they are and the material they used could have been presented better if they had the time.

Kind of makes me wonder and worry if we would go after Thunderbean if they didn't noticed any quality control in some of their releases before putting it out and they can't afford on doing reissues (unlike Warners) after the fact.

Kind of makes me wonder and worry if we would go after Thunderbean if they didn't noticed any quality control in some of their releases before putting it out and they can't afford on doing reissues (unlike Warners) after the fact.

Steve Stanchfield or anyone else who works with him can correct me on this, but I think Steve would be more likely to catch and fix a gaffe, given that there's no deadlines that I know of, they aren't under corporate pressure, Thunderbean isn't undergoing issues post-acquisition like AT&T is, etc.

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For anybody wondering how any of the Volume 1 restorations could have been if they were instead released with Volume 2 standards, we now have our answer. MeTV aired Daredevil Droopy earlier today and the copy they aired was in HD, yet for whatever reason it wasn't the same restoration on the Volume 1 disc. The copy they aired has similar issues as half of the cartoons on the Volume 2 disc, meaning murky colors, DVNR, and recycled Turner audio.








Evidently, the lackluster transfers on Volume 2 did not have to be as bad as they are and the material they used could have been presented better if they had the time.

The grain has been completely scrubbed out of the MeTV copy, too, like with the Volume 2 shorts.

This article might unveil some other factors that influenced how this ended up and Jerry’s attitude about it.

https://www.mediaplaynew...a-rosemary-jay-and-evan/ 

Seems many of you were not brave enough to complain to Jerry Beck directly about these issues when Stu challanged you lot to do so when Jerry Beck was on 23.12.2020.

Many of us knew it would be pointless to complain to Jerry Beck directly after seeing how he reacted to the issues over on his Cartoon Research Facebook group .
If those issues were/are so glaring and wrong then I would have thought it would make more sense to write into Stu Show with complaints rather than in a private facebook group, I would think. Specially since he was encoring peoples to do so.

In fact, Jerry deleted the very first thread on the Cartoon Research group complaining about the DVNR... and in the next thread  on the topic, he proceeded to downplay the issues, writing comments like  "watch the set for yourself and stop listening to idiots."
Jerry is unfortunetly not wrong, if you are always going to base your options n on what someone else say you will not have much of personal option at all, specially if you have not seen that movie yourself or that particualar release.

Not to mention, when people pointed out how the previous thread on the topic had been abruptly deleted, you went around like some kind of moral guardian spouting nonsense like  "on private web forums are not subject to free expression, only US governement are as stated in the 1st admendement" and 
Unfortuetly this not nonsense, but fact. I'm just always bemused when folks fails for this and think that 1st apply to all form of censorship, if it did, then none of our beloved cartoons would have been a subject to a corporate censorship ever and then nothing would allowed to be removed from facebook or Twitter for that matter. Whether that would be by those corporate social media giants themselves or by some private invidual using those social media

"the person that made the previous post about the DVNR problem on Tex Vol 2 also made post back in October complaining that the set was not yet out then, so I don't think you have right to complain if things then get rushed through the production."
Unfortunetly this is also correct, person who made that original post about DVNR problem actually made nonsensical post in october the set was ether delayed or cancelled so I don't think that person then looks too good when they are the first person to complain when something actually went wrong in the production. Two wrongs don't make a right.

two wrongs don't make a right....
So on the one hand, you were encouraging Jerry Beck to delete complaints about Avery Volume 2.... and now, you are scolding people over here for NOT complaining? What on earth is your deal, dude?

Note: part of the response in bold.

I never encored Jerry to delate the first first post, he decided that all by himself, probably more for the fact that that person was annoying Jerry for some time I would image rahter than the topic itself that the second Avery set is having some DVNR problems since I think all other posts on that topic stayed far as I know. but not sure I would call that comment of mine scolding more so a expression of disapointment that no one took Stu up on his challange considering that Stu actually went on a hypocritical rant over the wrong titles on the flintstone set, if it came of as scolding then sorry. I originally actually intended to mention Stu's hiporcritcal rant but got distracted and forgot about it.

This article might unveil some other factors that influenced how this ended up and Jerry’s attitude about it.

https://www.mediaplaynew...a-rosemary-jay-and-evan/ 

So George Feltenstein is fired (and stops working on February 19). Damn.

This article might unveil some other factors that influenced how this ended up and Jerry’s attitude about it.

https://www.mediaplaynew...a-rosemary-jay-and-evan/ 

Well that is disappointing, but at the same time inevitable, as everything has an expiration date, be it planned or unplanned. This will likely be a big setback to getting anymore quality DVD and Blu-Ray releases of classic animation, but hopefully the long-term future will sort itself out and hopefully we will eventually get the rest of Tex Avery's MGM output and the 1950's Popeye shorts. If there are several years of inactivity, maybe they can start the next Tex Avery project from scratch and actually give us a chronological set, whether it be complete or in volumes. We can only hope.

This article might unveil some other factors that influenced how this ended up and Jerry’s attitude about it.

https://www.mediaplaynew...a-rosemary-jay-and-evan/ 

In other words, long-time members of the Warner corporation were ousted, this year, and replaced with lackeys.

Wow.

This article might unveil some other factors that influenced how this ended up and Jerry’s attitude about it.

https://www.mediaplaynew...a-rosemary-jay-and-evan/ 

So George Feltenstein is fired (and stops working on February 19). Damn.

This is a big-ass problem, and let me tell you why.

George is ALWAYS fighting for quality, and although he cares about cartoons just as much (if not more) than Jerry does, George's voice is always heard throughout the company more than Jerry's is, because whereas Jerry's just a consultant for WB, George was one of the big guys at WHV for a while, and the president/founder of WAC. Possibly more so than Jerry Beck himself, you have George to thank for the fact that Looney Tunes were released on DVD, restored, at all. It was George's priority to bring restored cartoons to home video from, well, basically the second DVD came out.

George was VERY uncomfortable with Porky Pig 101, maybe even more so than some of the more anal-retentive fans, because he didn't feel comfortable releasing the weak prints you see on that set. The problem, of course, was that it just wasn't a profitable idea to restore 60+ cartoons when none had been touched for years.

If you listen to the WAC podcast, you know George hates "certain companies" (as he calls them, AKA Disney) that scrub grain, leave DNR artifacts in, and overall screw up big-time when restoring their animated products, and he attempted to right the wrongs of the French Tex set with the gorgeous Blu-Ray that his company put out in February. I'm sure it made him sick to his stomach to see the farmed-to-India, DNRed, and grain-scrubbed prints on the latest volume of Tex, hence why he's since held off on new animation releases until the folks at MPI come back after COVID ends (IF they come back).

There's a good chance that future releases from WHV/WAC will NOT have George's involvement/input, but will STILL have Jerry's involvement/input, but chances are that Jerry's voice will not be heard as much as it should be now that George is out. This most likely will not go well. Case in point - on the Road Runner Superstars Disc, a disc that George was not involved in but Jerry was, Warners decided to restore the Rudy Larriva cartoons instead of the Chuck Jones RRs that had yet to be touched. Jerry, upon hearing this, told Warners that it was best to stick with the Chuck cartoons, but they blew him off and did the Larriva cartoons anyways, thinking they were just as good. Obviously, they weren't, and that release sucks.

Short version: George is who you have to thank for a lot of the best releases, LTGC, Popeye the 1940s, and Tex Vol 1 included, focusing on classic animation that have come from either WHV or WAC. With him out and a new, supposedly not-as-passionate/not-as-caring guy/gal in, who knows what will happen? All we can do it wait.

farmed-to-India

Are you being literal with this, or is this just hyperbole?

Otherwise I agree with your post.

farmed-to-India

Are you being literal with this, or is this just hyperbole?

Otherwise I agree with your post.

No one in town knows where a lot of the new restoration work on these cartoons is being done. A few of us in the know have surmised they were farmed out overseas to be done in such a huge amount. No way they would pay standard domestic rates to restore '30s Merrie Melodies.

farmed-to-India

Are you being literal with this, or is this just hyperbole?

Otherwise I agree with your post.

Thad has said many times that the weaker, DVNRed prints on the latest Tex set were farmed-to-India as opposed to being made at Warner Bros. Motion Picture Imaging (WBMPI or MPI), which is where the cartoons on the Popeye Blurays and Tex Vol 1 were restored, since the MPI staff was laid off. He recently said (on the episode of Cartoon Logic that came out today) that he couldn't get a straight answer from anyone, and the India thing is an educated guess.

EDIT: see Thad's response above. He answered it better while I was typing.

farmed-to-India

Are you being literal with this, or is this just hyperbole?

Otherwise I agree with your post.

It's not hyperbole.

(EDIT: Read Thad and tashlinfan44's posts above. They said it better than I could've.)

---

This article might unveil some other factors that influenced how this ended up and Jerry’s attitude about it.

https://www.mediaplaynew...a-rosemary-jay-and-evan/ 

So George Feltenstein is fired (and stops working on February 19). Damn.

This is a big-ass problem, and let me tell you why.

George is ALWAYS fighting for quality, and although he cares about cartoons just as much (if not more) than Jerry does, George's voice is always heard throughout the company more than Jerry's is, because whereas Jerry's just a consultant for WB, George was one of the big guys at WHV for a while, and the president/founder of WAC. Possibly more so than Jerry Beck himself, you have George to thank for the fact that Looney Tunes were released on DVD, restored, at all. It was George's priority to bring restored cartoons to home video from, well, basically the second DVD came out.

George was VERY uncomfortable with Porky Pig 101, maybe even more so than some of the more anal-retentive fans, because he didn't feel comfortable releasing the weak prints you see on that set. The problem, of course, was that it just wasn't a profitable idea to restore 60+ cartoons when none had been touched for years.

If you listen to the WAC podcast, you know George hates "certain companies" (as he calls them, AKA Disney) that scrub grain, leave DNR artifacts in, and overall screw up big-time when restoring their animated products, and he attempted to right the wrongs of the French Tex set with the gorgeous Blu-Ray that his company put out in February. I'm sure it made him sick to his stomach to see the farmed-to-India, DNRed, and grain-scrubbed prints on the latest volume of Tex, hence why he's since held off on new animation releases until the folks at MPI come back after COVID ends (IF they come back).

I very much agree with what you're saying about George and his work. This is sad news indeed. But at the same time, it begs the question: why did George okay this second Tex Avery volume to begin with when he knew the quality would not be up to par?

It's also worth mentioning that not ALL the cartoons on the French DVD set are DVNRed (even though that's what everyone seems to be saying these days). A number of them are - for instance, I remember Red Hot Riding Hood looking terrible. But a couple of the Droopys that were heavily DVNRed on the 2007 US DVD set were actually not DVNRed on the French set. It varies from cartoon to cartoon.

"

why did George okay this second Tex Avery volume to begin with when he knew the quality would not be up to par?

"

Honestly, I don't know. Jerry checked Volume 1 before discs were made to make sure mistakes like this were avoided. Assuming he did the same with Volume 2, it's a mystery as to why HE signed this stuff off. Maybe it was because he knew that fans were hungry for more Tex, and while that IS true, fans are hungry for PROPERLY RESTORED Tex. I think I speak for all of us when I say waiting until this pandemic blows over for this volume would have been fine, if it meant no DVNR/grain removal.

"

why did George okay this second Tex Avery volume to begin with when he knew the quality would not be up to par?

"

Honestly, I don't know. Jerry checked Volume 1 before discs were made to make sure mistakes like this were avoided. Assuming he did the same with Volume 2, it's a mystery as to why HE signed this stuff off. Maybe it was because he knew that fans were hungry for more Tex, and while that IS true, fans are hungry for PROPERLY RESTORED Tex. I think I speak for all of us when I say waiting until this pandemic blows over for this volume would have been fine, if it meant no DVNR/grain removal.

Of course people would have been fine with waiting a little longer; it's not as if WAC had promised a release date. Everyone would have understood that the delay was due to covid.

Jerry said half a year ago that the HBO Max "remasters" weren't good enough to be used by WAC, so something certainly happened which changed that. Did George greenlight the set right after hearing that he was getting laid off back in November?

What I got from Jerry's explanation on Stu's Show is that, because the Vol. 2 project was already underway when the lockdown hit, they were still obligated to finish it one way or another. And they actually had these versions re-done by the HBO Max restoration team repeatedly, as the initial versions (which we would've gotten if they had gone ahead and released this in June) were much worse.

So I can see the predicament that Jerry and George were in, but if they were stuck with having to release something, and considering that non-"cleaned up" versions of most of those transfers presumably exist (seeing that they were able to have them improved as much as they did)... why couldn't they just release those? It's not like we'd be getting less of what actually exists on the film material; meanwhile, even faded-red 16mm TV prints still provide something that these botch jobs don't, in actually showing the linework intact. There's something wrong when film isn't allowed to stand on its own merits but defacement (even "minor") due to incompetent restoration work is considered acceptable.

Jerry also admitted that if it weren't for all the complaining over the issues with this set, they'd have gone ahead with doing Vol. 3; but due to the complaints, Warner Archive won't be releasing it (or any more animation in general if I'm not misremembering) until after the pandemic is over.

Regarding George's firing, someone posted this  in the Warner Archive thread on the Blu-ray.com forum:

Jerry Beck just said on the Warner Archive Facebook group that George will remain with Warner Home Entertainment, HBO Max, and TCM as a full time consultant.

Still, as tashlinfan44 noted, being a consultant may not carry as much sway as actually working there as the guy running the joint.

What I got from Jerry's explanation on Stu's Show is that, because the Vol. 2 project was already underway when the lockdown hit, they were still obligated to finish it one way or another. And they actually had these versions re-done by the HBO Max restoration team repeatedly, as the initial versions (which we would've gotten if they had gone ahead and released this in June) were much worse.

So I can see the predicament that Jerry and George were in, but if they were stuck with having to release something, and considering that non-"cleaned up" versions of most of those transfers presumably exist (seeing that they were able to have them improved as much as they did)... why couldn't they just release those? It's not like we'd be getting less of what actually exists on the film material; meanwhile, even faded-red 16mm TV prints still provide something that these botch jobs don't, in actually showing the linework intact. There's something wrong when film isn't allowed to stand on its own merits but defacement (even "minor") due to incompetent restoration work is considered acceptable.

Jerry also admitted that if it weren't for all the complaining over the issues with this set, they'd have gone ahead with doing Vol. 3; but due to the complaints, Warner Archive won't be releasing it (or any more animation in general if I'm not misremembering) until after the pandemic is over.

Regarding George's firing, someone posted this  in the Warner Archive thread on the Blu-ray.com forum:

Jerry Beck just said on the Warner Archive Facebook group that George will remain with Warner Home Entertainment, HBO Max, and TCM as a full time consultant.

Still, as tashlinfan44 noted, being a consultant may not carry as much sway as actually working there as the guy running the joint.

It is genuinely disturbing to hear they would have actually gone ahead with Volume 3 like this if NOT for the complaining. Didn't Warner learn anything from Porky Pig 101?

And really? They were "obligated" by Warner Bros. to finish Volume 2 within a certain time frame (if I'm understanding what you're saying here) just because they had started work on it prior to the pandemic?

I thought I heard Jerry said they will NOT do Volume 3 unless the real staff comes back.

Also, I'm pretty sure Jerry didn't oversee the proceedings of the DVD before release because he couldn't go to the Archive department due to a "little" thing called a pandemic.