I wanted the major distributors to simply stop releasing pre-1990 stuff AND license everything to vintage film companies.

The major distributors may be better suited than vintage companies to maintain and preserve original elements in large archives, because of operational costs. But they are grossly incapable of handling general public releases of such stuff. Technically and politically incapable. Not to mention the lack of interest.

They're done. Warner, Disney, Paramount etc. from the 1940s have NOTHING to do with present-day corporations. Today's companies should acknowledge it and treat their archive as a piece of History of public interest, handling it for somebody else to release.

I agree. Honestly, after years of subpar classic animation releases from the likes of Warner and Disney, I think they need to just license their classic cartoon properties to Thunderbean and Shout! Factory. This is bullshit.

I looked myself at the Blu Ray transfers. It's obvious they were made by two different teams (and the same goes with Tom and Jerry from Hic Cup Pup to Smarty Cat on streaming services).

Those like Magical Maestro, besides the faked titles, look almost flawless. I didn't spot anything wrong for now.

Those like Droopy's Double Trouble though aren't very good, even though not as bad as people say. There's not much manual work on them apparently, no color grading and they just applied an auto dirt removal. It doesn't even remove all the dirt, but some of the ink lines are damaged.

They're not as bad as the Turner versions made in the mid 90s where in some cases anything that moves gets annihilated (to the point that in some cases they had to make a second version), or even the first Looney Tunes Golden Collection transfers, but it would have been nice if they removed that filter before putting them on BD.

The worst part though is how every short has reused audio from the 90s remasters, literally all of them. TV of Tomorrow in particular uses a bad mix where the sound effects sound very bad, and older shorts like Counterfeit Cat sound very muffled. That really makes no sense to me, because the audio track they scanned from those transfers (if they even did) should sound way better even in the worst scenario.

I wanted the major distributors to simply stop releasing pre-1990 stuff AND license everything to vintage film companies.

The major distributors may be better suited than vintage companies to maintain and preserve original elements in large archives, because of operational costs. But they are grossly incapable of handling general public releases of such stuff. Technically and politically incapable. Not to mention the lack of interest.

They're done. Warner, Disney, Paramount etc. from the 1940s have NOTHING to do with present-day corporations. Today's companies should acknowledge it and treat their archive as a piece of History of public interest, handling it for somebody else to release.

I agree. Honestly, after years of subpar classic animation releases from the likes of Warner and Disney, I think they need to just license their classic cartoon properties to Thunderbean and Shout! Factory. This is bullshit.

That wouldn't be much of a solution if the right people aren't involved. Kino's later Pink Panther sets have maladies of their own.

The worst part though is how every short has reused audio from the 90s remasters, literally all of them. TV of Tomorrow in particular uses a bad mix where the sound effects sound very bad, and older shorts like Counterfeit Cat sound very muffled. That really makes no sense to me, because the audio track they scanned from those transfers (if they even did) should sound way better even in the worst scenario.

Thanks for addressing the issue of reused audio again, as it is just as important as faulty visuals. This problem has plagued the Turner-owned cartoons as far back as the Looney Tunes Golden Collection days and it still rears its ugly head. We've gotten some relief from this phenomenon a few times and Tex Avery Volume 1 had me thinking they wouldn't be doing this anymore (Dumb-Hounded in particular sounds miles better than its 90s transfer), but if Volume 2 and all those HBO Max restorations are any indication, this is something we still need to keep an ear out for. It's disappointing how Warner thinks audio transfers made over 25 years ago with less advanced equipment are still suitable to use for their all new 4K restorations.

In any case the DNRed shorts all belong to the same faulty batch, which includes only MGM shorts. A few Tom and Jerry cartoons are among these as well.



I noticed how The Counterfeit Cat has been fixed since the first version they put on HBO, I kinda wish they'd do it with the rest and make replacement discs.

I've gone though a random assortment of shorts on the disc, and I'm just going to put it out there that this set isn't "as bad" as many people are making it out to be. Is it the "absolutely perfect" home run it could have been? Perhaps not, but frankly, almost no previous animation release has ever been. Everyone here knows that all too well.
The individual frames that some people have posted showing how nasty the DNR has been are absolutely accurate. That said, seeing those as still images is considerably worse than the cartoons really look in motion. Believe me, I am not excusing the work that we're all disappointed in. I just wish that some of the people who are so shocked and outraged could see clips of those scenes. I'll bet if no one had told me to look for it, I wouldn't notice half of it. The nastiest DNR I see on any regular basis are the older MGM transfers that air on TCM on Saturday mornings, and the stuff on this disc doesn't come anywhere near how ugly those look.

I'm not saying that this material couldn't and or shouldn't have been handled better. I wish it had been. I watched a few where the audio quality of the soundtracks certainly didn't live up to the video restoration, and that's a missed opportunity as well. Some of the material on this set looks fantastic, better than I had expected. Were there some smeared/line erased frames in "Little Rural Riding Hood?" Yes, there were. It didn't really take me out of the moment, and that film, like essentially all the others on the set look better than you've ever seen them. Some don't look as good as the best examples, Ventriloquist Cat is not from as nice a source as Magical Maestro, but even that looks better than almost any of us have ever seen.

And the grain hasn't been completely blurred away like say, the new Josie and the Pussycats blu, which has been so tampered with it looks like modern flash stuff like Teen Titans Go. (Josie and the Pussycats certainly ain't Fantasia, so I'm not sure anyone is going to throw a fit over that. The fact that multiple episodes have their openings assembled out of sequence is perhaps a better example of the lack of care and quality control put into THAT set.)

Thad was one of the first, if not THE first, to point out the flaws and imperfections of this set, and even HE has taken great pains to point out multiple times that the set has its merits and is worth buying. I'd like to double or triple down on that. His points about the failings are well taken and absolutely valid. His points about what shine are equally valid.

Multiple posts maybe here or over at the Blu-ray forums have compared this set to the Famous Popeyes. As a lifelong Popeye fan/collector I was thrilled at how well those turned out, but hey, they weren't absolutely perfect either. There was (thankfully only minor) DNR, some incorrect audio endings that could have been corrected from alternate sources, and some of the films (perhaps Cinecolor entries) that didn't look "as" great as some others. I would have LOVED Rocket to Mars to look and sound as nice as some other entries, but it certainly wouldn't make me want to send that set back for a refund. I'm not sure that Avery V2 falls so far from that tree.

No one can tell someone else what to like or dislike. I will just throw it out there that as someone who actually has the disc and has watched random bits of it, I think most animation/Avery fans here will really enjoy it and be thrilled at how good the really really good entries look. Recreated titles are stupid, just as stupid as the LT/MM recreated titles were on HBOMax, but they won't really impact your appreciation for the films themselves.

Also, I've always enjoyed the late 80's documentary "Tex Avery: King of Cartoons", and I'm glad to have it as an extra on this disc. As Mesterius pointed out, this has been previously included in the Looney Tunes Platinum Collection Volume 2, but if you don't already own that set, (and why don't you?) then you can see it here. This version hasn't been restored or cleaned up in any way, it looks and sounds old, like the potentially low-budget late 80's film it is, but it has some nice vintage footage...some interviews, Preston Blair animation drawings of Red, etc. Having it on these discs is a helluva lot nicer than having recorded it off "The Ovation Channel" a few years back.

Should the diehard animation fans be unhappy with some of this set's failings? Sure. Should people voice their displeasure in the hopes of avoiding these issues with a potential volume 3? Absolutely. That said, I think a lot of people who are thinking of skipping this set based on what they've read/heard so far may be missing out on a collection they'd actually enjoy quite a lot.

I've gone though a random assortment of shorts on the disc, and I'm just going to put it out there that this set isn't "as bad" as many people are making it out to be. Is it the "absolutely perfect" home run it could have been? Perhaps not, but frankly, almost no previous animation release has ever been. Everyone here knows that all too well.
The individual frames that some people have posted showing how nasty the DNR has been are absolutely accurate. That said, seeing those as still images is considerably worse than the cartoons really look in motion. Believe me, I am not excusing the work that we're all disappointed in. I just wish that some of the people who are so shocked and outraged could see clips of those scenes. I'll bet if no one had told me to look for it, I wouldn't notice half of it. The nastiest DNR I see on any regular basis are the older MGM transfers that air on TCM on Saturday mornings, and the stuff on this disc doesn't come anywhere near how ugly those look.

I'm not saying that this material couldn't and or shouldn't have been handled better. I wish it had been. I watched a few where the audio quality of the soundtracks certainly didn't live up to the video restoration, and that's a missed opportunity as well. Some of the material on this set looks fantastic, better than I had expected. Were there some smeared/line erased frames in "Little Rural Riding Hood?" Yes, there were. It didn't really take me out of the moment, and that film, like essentially all the others on the set look better than you've ever seen them. Some don't look as good as the best examples, Ventriloquist Cat is not from as nice a source as Magical Maestro, but even that looks better than almost any of us have ever seen.

And the grain hasn't been completely blurred away like say, the new Josie and the Pussycats blu, which has been so tampered with it looks like modern flash stuff like Teen Titans Go. (Josie and the Pussycats certainly ain't Fantasia, so I'm not sure anyone is going to throw a fit over that. The fact that multiple episodes have their openings assembled out of sequence is perhaps a better example of the lack of care and quality control put into THAT set.)

Thad was one of the first, if not THE first, to point out the flaws and imperfections of this set, and even HE has taken great pains to point out multiple times that the set has its merits and is worth buying. I'd like to double or triple down on that. His points about the failings are well taken and absolutely valid. His points about what shine are equally valid.

Multiple posts maybe here or over at the Blu-ray forums have compared this set to the Famous Popeyes. As a lifelong Popeye fan/collector I was thrilled at how well those turned out, but hey, they weren't absolutely perfect either. There was (thankfully only minor) DNR, some incorrect audio endings that could have been corrected from alternate sources, and some of the films (perhaps Cinecolor entries) that didn't look "as" great as some others. I would have LOVED Rocket to Mars to look and sound as nice as some other entries, but it certainly wouldn't make me want to send that set back for a refund. I'm not sure that Avery V2 falls so far from that tree.

No one can tell someone else what to like or dislike. I will just throw it out there that as someone who actually has the disc and has watched random bits of it, I think most animation/Avery fans here will really enjoy it and be thrilled at how good the really really good entries look. Recreated titles are stupid, just as stupid as the LT/MM recreated titles were on HBOMax, but they won't really impact your appreciation for the films themselves.

Also, I've always enjoyed the late 80's documentary "Tex Avery: King of Cartoons", and I'm glad to have it as an extra on this disc. This version hasn't been restored or cleaned up in any way, it looks and sounds old, like the potentially low-budget late 80's film it is, but it has some nice vintage footage of stuff that you don't see anywhere else...some interviews, Preston Blair animation drawings of Red, etc. Having it on this disc is a helluva lot nicer than having recorded it off "The Ovation Channel" a few years back.

Should the diehard animation fans be unhappy with some of this set's failings? Sure. Should people voice their displeasure in the hopes of avoiding these issues with a potential volume 3? Absolutely. That said, I think a lot of people who are thinking of skipping this set based on what they've read/heard so far may be missing out on a collection they'd actually enjoy quite a lot.

Fair and thorough review. I remain disappointed with what happened, and hope the affected cartoons can be revisited and restored properly at a later point. But I can definitely believe the set still has much enjoyment to offer.

One thing, though: the "Tex Avery: King of Cartoons" documentary has actually been made available on American Blu-ray before. It was included on the second Looney Tunes: Platinum Collection set, which had a special section devoted to MGM cartoons by Avery.

Thank you for the correction, you’re absolutely right. When I wrote that, I was convinced it had been released somewhere before, couldn’t remember where for the life of me. I did a really quick google search that went nowhere and so I shrugged and hit post. Good catch, later I’ll go in and edit the post to fix that—

Were Counterfeit Cat and Ventriloquist Cat two of the lower quality cartoons (in terms of restoration, I mean)? I feel like those weren't as sharp as some of the other cartoons on the set.

In any case the DNRed shorts all belong to the same faulty batch, which includes only MGM shorts. A few Tom and Jerry cartoons are among these as well.



I noticed how The Counterfeit Cat has been fixed since the first version they put on HBO, I kinda wish they'd do it with the rest and make replacement discs.

Unless I'm misreading anything... does that mean the version of Counterfeit Cat that's currently on HBO Max looks better than the version on the Volume 2 Blu-ray?

The BD has the fixed version of Counterfeit Cat. It looked like this on HBO a couple months ago:



Ventriloquist Cat had no DNR on HBO as well, but the source material seems to be very bad. It kinda reminds me of the HD version of Puttin On the Dog.

VENTRILOQUIST CAT is sourced from the exact interpositive used to make the syndicated 16mm prints in the '80s, right down to having the same scratch at the very edge of the picture. I have one, and I think the lab timed the color better for those than the technicians here did.

The BD has the fixed version of Counterfeit Cat. It looked like this on HBO a couple months ago:



Ventriloquist Cat had no DNR on HBO as well, but the source material seems to be very bad. It kinda reminds me of the HD version of Puttin On the Dog.

That looks even worse than the worst offenders on the Blu-Ray.

Though, it's a positive sign that they were able to go back to whatever raw scans they had and fix them, at least for this short. If everyone blows this off as no big deal, Volume 3 will be more of the same.

A better selection of cartoons than volume 1. To tell people not to buy this, if you a Tex Avery fan, would be harsh. But, the screw-up are annoying and potential buyers should be aware of them. But if WB slashed/cut restoration budget for this set, then could have added more “messed up” cartoons. I do not see a volume 3 being released with high quality standards any time soon. And I also assume that will be WB excuse for not including the very un-pc cartoons.

Thanks for addressing the issue of reused audio again, as it is just as important as faulty visuals. This problem has plagued the Turner-owned cartoons as far back as the Looney Tunes Golden Collection days and it still rears its ugly head. We've gotten some relief from this phenomenon a few times and Tex Avery Volume 1 had me thinking they wouldn't be doing this anymore (Dumb-Hounded in particular sounds miles better than its 90s transfer), but if Volume 2 and all those HBO Max restorations are any indication, this is something we still need to keep an ear out for. It's disappointing how Warner thinks audio transfers made over 25 years ago with less advanced equipment are still suitable to use for their all new 4K restorations.

I remember the other issue I had with the Tom and Jerry Golden Collection was that they reused the Spotlight Collection tracks for most of them (don't remember if some had better ones). I specifically remember Springtime for Thomas still having that annoying tinny sound to it's soundtrack.

Seems many of you were not brave enough to complain to Jerry Beck directly about these issues when Stu challanged you lot to do so when Jerry Beck was on 23.12.2020.

Seems many of you were not brave enough to complain to Jerry Beck directly about these issues when Stu challanged you lot to do so when Jerry Beck was on 23.12.2020.

Many of us knew it would be pointless to complain to Jerry Beck directly after seeing how he reacted to the issues over on his Cartoon Research Facebook group .

In fact, Jerry deleted the very first thread on the Cartoon Research group complaining about the DVNR... and in the next thread  on the topic, he proceeded to downplay the issues, writing comments like  "watch the set for yourself and stop listening to idiots."

Not to mention, when people pointed out how the previous thread on the topic had been abruptly deleted, you went around like some kind of moral guardian spouting nonsense like  "on private web forums are not subject to free expression, only US governement are as stated in the 1st admendement" and  "the person that made the previous post about the DVNR problem on Tex Vol 2 also made post back in October complaining that the set was not yet out then, so I don't think you have right to complain if things then get rushed through the production."

So on the one hand, you were encouraging Jerry Beck to delete complaints about Avery Volume 2.... and now, you are scolding people over here for NOT complaining? What on earth is your deal, dude?

That public access show isn't the best venue for a civil discussion either. Stu berated anyone complaining about the defects on Avery Vol. 2 with a "f*ck all you guys". Yeah, OK, boomer. Now tell us why it's still OK for you to gripe about the Flintstones set, grandpa. Are we really talking about speaking objectively on these releases or just not wanting to hurt Jerry Beck's feelings? Avery Vol. 2 is worth buying - it just isn't to Vol. 1's standards at all, and we weren't told that was the case until after it was out. It's still rating in the top ten of its Blu-Ray categories on Amazon almost a month later, so not sure what the problem is here.

None of the shorts look as bad as the shorts that were going to be on Tom and Jerry Volume 2. But if no one had spoken up about the issues about Porky 101, we wouldn't be here right now. WAC would have put out unrestored Turner prints on DVD-R, because that clearly would have been good enough.

It's a bit disturbing that the past performance of the first disc and the Popeye volumes wasn't enough to make a difference.

I still don't understand why they had to rush out this set. I would have preferred waiting another full year for Volume 2 over this.