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S. C. MacPeter
2 years ago
I was looking through some copyrights earlier today of a few Felix the Cat cartoons, along with some trade reviews giving a few more details, and my imagination got worked in trying to think about what they may of looked like (think SAX APPEAL and SCHOOL DAZE, of which no prints are known). I can't imagine I am alone in thinking about how good some cartoons that aren't in existence at the moment are, so what are some cartoons you think would be "classics" if discovered? My only stimulant is that it must be something you know to the best of your knowledge doesn't exist, so not say, a Yogi Bear you missed when it was airing. I mean REALLY lost stuff
DerekS
2 years ago
Off the top of my head;
[list]
  • Rickety Gin (1927, Oswald the Lucky Rabbit)
  • Hot Dogs (1928, final Disney Oswald)
  • A Jolt for Gen. Germ (1930, Fleischer commercial for Lysol)[/list]

    • And if we're counting unfinished cartoons;
    [list]
  • Mickey's Toothache (1938, Mickey Mouse)
  • Gone With the Draft (1941/1942, Merrie Melodies) (I should probably make a post on this one, not many know about it...)
  • The Fat Rat and the Stupid Cat (1945/1946, was to be the first Sylvester+Tweety pairing)[/list]

    • (P.S.: I still think "Sax Appeal" is a very Famous Studios-level pun.)
    Cheers,
    Derek.
    +3
    S. C. MacPeter
    2 years ago
    Some good titles, and I'll count unfinished since there aren't many known from this era outside of Disney.

    Since I didn't make a few clear myself, here's a few Lost Felixes I suspect would be classics if found:

    -The Love Punch (1921) Felix uses elixir to cheat a boxing fight in order to impress Kitty. Sounds very funny, and it does seem that Messmer developed Felix's character very quick and knew how to get good comedy out of him from even the very early ones (not that they exist, a few do, but I haven't seen them, I just suspect from what I've read)
    - Felix Baffled by Banjos (1924) Felix annoyed by Banjos. This one was offered in 16mm, perhaps it'll show up someday?
    -Zoo Logic (1926) Felix releases the zoo animals into the world, much to their confusion. A clever idea
    -Sax Appeal (1927) Similar to Banjos, but with Saxophones. Again, a funny idea
    -The Last Life (1928) Felix kills himself 8 times to get insurance money and retire with Kitty. Gruesome, but it has to be funny
    +2
    OutOfOdor
    2 years ago
    For me, the two Dr. Seuss "Flit Cartoons" Audio Cinema produced in the early 30s, scored by Phil Schieb.

    Ditto for "A Cowboy I Would Be" with Benny the Bear, released by "Racket Sound Cartoons". If anything, if it ever surfaces, I won't doubt that maybe it'll be a fun oddity in the same vein as Marty or Simon, the Monks.

    Adding to Strummz's list of Felixs, "Felix Fans the Flames" might be a really fun one to see surface someday. The concept of Felix in Hades seems like it might be an interesting "nightmare" cartoon. "Flirts with Fate" is another one that seems fun, at least to see what Messmer and Co.'s depiction of Martians seems like.

    If we're to add unfinished cartoons to the mix, probably "Mickey's Elopement", which was conceived with a revamp of Mickey's personality that I would've been all for, not to mention a very funny "meta"-type ending.
    "With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
    +2
    S. C. MacPeter
    2 years ago
    I believe FLIRTS WITH FATE is a survivor, but a rare one. I suspect Messmer has some part in designing the Martians in the Popeye ROCKET TO MARS, so I bet they may be just as fun as that. A print of FANS THE FLAMES was owned by Steve Stanchfield at somepoint, but it needs to be refound and accessed sadly. I was tempted to add FANS to my list, but since I knew about that, I held back

    I wish Riley Thomson had finished more Mickey cartoons, it seems he was on the verge of giving the series a fresh sense of direction and humor they had been lacking! ELOPEMENT in particular sounds like a good one! If you have the giant book on Mickey, read all the ones Thomson's unit was gonna do, they almost sound really good
    +2
    S. C. MacPeter
    2 years ago
    I'm sure Kausler, or someone else involved kept a print. I've never seen it though

    LIONEL LION has since been found within the LOC masters, I have that confirmed and I've sadly never seen it either. I do know it is apparently quite dark in plot. I don't know what others have since been found outside of MONKEY LOVE, which they also have. I still know for certain the missing image section of HE CAN'T MAKE IT STICK is still missing and the original negative has the first half clipped off
    +2
    SuperMuppet64
    2 years ago
    a print of city life was sold on ebay a few years ago. mark didn't seem to be too happy about that in an offhand comment
    +1
    DerekS
    2 years ago

    For me, the two Dr. Seuss "Flit Cartoons" Audio Cinema produced in the early 30s, scored by Phil Schieb.

    Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 



    I totally forgot about those. I would love to see those simply because the mental image of a Jerry Sheilds-drawn Seuss creature is really funny to me.

    I also wanna see the remaining Binko Bear cartoons...provided those were even completed. I believe I remember hearing that they were at least copyrighted so clearly work was done on them.

    And also Lay On, MacBugs, a lost Bugs Bunny cartoon. This one got an MPPDA certificate (no. 17897), so again, some work had to have been done on it.
    Cheers,
    Derek.
    +1
    OutOfOdor
    2 years ago

    I believe FLIRTS WITH FATE is a survivor, but a rare one. I suspect Messmer has some part in designing the Martians in the Popeye ROCKET TO MARS, so I bet they may be just as fun as that. A print of FANS THE FLAMES was owned by Steve Stanchfield at somepoint, but it needs to be refound and accessed sadly. I was tempted to add FANS to my list, but since I knew about that, I held back

    I wish Riley Thomson had finished more Mickey cartoons, it seems he was on the verge of giving the series a fresh sense of direction and humor they had been lacking! ELOPEMENT in particular sounds like a good one! If you have the giant book on Mickey, read all the ones Thomson's unit was gonna do, they almost sound really good

    Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 



    Ah, good to hear "Flirts With Fate" probably, albeit one not as easy to come by as others from that same period. Admittedly, I got the "lost" info for that one from Gerstein's massive old encyclopedia document, which is likely VERY outdated in many spots, so it's good to know that it's most likely extent.

    Oh, and I indeed have that giant Mickey book you refer to. Been meaning to go through the whole thing sometime. DEFINITELY going to read up on the aborted Thomson shorts with the Mouse when I get to the section that discusses them once I have a chance.

    "With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
    +1
    S. C. MacPeter
    2 years ago

    Ah, good to hear "Flirts With Fate" probably, albeit one not as easy to come by as others from that same period. Admittedly, I got the "lost" info for that one from Gerstein's massive old encyclopedia document, which is likely VERY outdated in many spots, so it's good to know that it's most likely extent.

    Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 



    Well, let's fix that. Here is a list of lost Felixes, Post-Paramount from David in 2007, with revamps from another post of what exists, and some of my own edit out of one that never existed. If it is in Italics, it exists incomplete or as a cutdown, if in bold, it is completely lost for the time being, though I bet even a few on this list may of surfaced since

    1922 Felix All at Sea
    1922 Felix Finds a Way
    1924 Felix Tries to Rest
    1924 A Friend In Need
    1924 Felix Baffled by Banjos
    1924 Felix Finishes First
    1925 Felix Rests in Peace
    1925 Felix Outwits Cupid
    1925 Felix the Cat Busts Into Business
    1925 Felix the Cat on the Farm
    1925 Felix the Cat Tries the Trades
    1926 Felix the Cat Fans the Flames
    1926 Felix the Cat Misses the Cue
    1926 A Tale of Two Kitties
    1926 School Daze
    1926 Reverse English
    1926 Felix the Cat Collars the Button
    1926 Zoo Logic
    1927 Sax Appeal
    1927 Dough-Nutty
    1927 Art for Heart’s Sake
    1928 Ohm Sweet Ohm
    1928 The Last Life
    1930 Hootchy Kootchy Parlais Vous (NOTE, Cutdown is silent and in full aperture image)

    With this too, here are the Paramount Felixes I know to exist, from that old GAC post. Again, more likely exist

    Feline Follies (1919)
    Felix the Food Controller (1920)
    Felix at the Circus
    Felix's Fish Story
    +5
    nickramer
    2 years ago
    Under unmade cartoons, I would say Freleng's 1950's jazzy take on Snow White with a caricature of Marilyn Monroe as the princess.
    +2
    Bobby Bickert
    2 years ago
    There was going to be an early color Famous Studios Popeye cartoon in which Bluto is the "King of Hades". ("I am the King of Hades. I want the prettiest of ladies. To be my queen.") It may have been the first Popeye cartoon written by I. Klein. But it never made it past the storyboard stage, I assume because of the Hayes Code. But the storyboard survived. I first found out about it in the Official Popeye Fanclub newsmagazine in the 1990's. One of the members got to see the entire storyboard before it got scattered to the four winds. In my early years of Internet access I found some of the storyboard drawings posted on an animation art gallery's website. (Though they're erroneously referred to as being from "I'll Be Skiing Ya".) While I was doing without a computer for nearly 6 years, this animation art gallery acquired more storyboard drawings. I think there's enough posted there now to tell the whole story. But I'll fill in more details, like the ending, if there's interest. (Though it will have to be from memory.)

    http://www.thegremlin.com/famous.html 

    Here's one more storyboard drawing from an auction website. (Though it's also erroneously referred to as being from "I'll Be Skiing Ya".)

    http://www.hakes.com/Auction/ItemDetail/39130/POPEYE-NEPHEWS-ILL-BE-SKIING-YA-ORIGINAL-ART-STORYBOARD 
    +4
    Tommy Stathes
    2 years ago

    Off the top of my head;

  • Hot Dogs (1928, final Disney Oswald)

    • Originally Posted by: DerekS 



    This one's not lost, yet it doesn't circulate (yet).
    +5
    S. C. MacPeter
    2 years ago

    "Flirts with Fate" is another one that seems fun, at least to see what Messmer and Co.'s depiction of Martians seems like.

    Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 



    Today is your lucky day, as some amateur account has gotten footage from a GEM Felix screening where they screened the cartoon from 35mm. I thought it was good but not as creative as it could've been, let me know what you think, Odor


    +2
    OutOfOdor
    2 years ago

    "Flirts with Fate" is another one that seems fun, at least to see what Messmer and Co.'s depiction of Martians seems like.

    Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 



    Today is your lucky day, as some amateur account has gotten footage from a GEM Felix screening where they screened the cartoon from 35mm. I thought it was good but not as creative as it could've been, let me know what you think, Odor


    Originally Posted by: OutOfOdor 



    Hot diggety!
    Thank you bringing this to my attention! I'll have my thoughts on this sometime later in the week, it's gettin' mighty late for me.
    "With all respect to the great mousetrap."- Popeye, "The Spinach Overture" (1935)
    +2
    ArcLordOne
    a year ago
    Krazy Kat: Russian Dressing. One of the greatest cartoons of all time.
    Pete Hale, Cartoonist
    https://thegoldenageofanimation.blogspot.com/ 
    S. C. MacPeter
    a year ago
    Not sure how that counts as "lost", given that its never been missing....
    +2
    Mac
    • Mac
    • Advanced Member
    a year ago
    I'v really enjoyed reading this thread 😀

    A lost cartoon I'd love to see:
    Alice Foils the Pirates (in which Julius kills a whole crew single-handed!)

    A never completed cartoon that I wish had been:
    Mountain Carvers (Directed by Frank Tashlin, Mickey, Donald and Goofy sculpt a giant Mount Rushmore stylehead into a mountain. Look like a really funny and imaginative short. It got really quite far into production with a Leica reel being made... I'm not sure if the reel is lost to time or not, either way I'd love to see it)

    And there are also cartoons with lost versions – scenes which were cut before being released or edited fo re-release.
    The Heckling Hare with the original ending immediately springs to mind as one I've wanted to see for a very long time!
    +2
    Bobby Bickert
    a year ago

    And there are also cartoons with lost versions – scenes which were cut before being released or edited fo re-release.
    The Heckling Hare with the original ending immediately springs to mind as one I've wanted to see for a very long time!

    Originally Posted by: Mac 



    Don't forget "Hollywood Steps Out". A brief clip from the long-lost original ending survives. ("I'm a bad boy!")

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