Hi, I read that Ub Iwerks offered animator Grim Natwick a partnership with him while working at his studio in 1934 but that Grim Natwick refused the offer and preferred to work at Disney for an unknown reason. It would be interesting to know if this information is true, as Natwick's cartoons are undoubtedly the best produced by the Iwerks studio and definitively prove that, contrary to what Walt's fans say, Iwerks' cartoons were just as good as those produced by Disney. Unfortunately, when Grim Natwick started working for the latter, his drawings and animation lost all the identity they had with Fleischer and Iwerks and became completely bland.

Does anyone have any information that could confirm this story ?

It's a pity that no one is interested in Ub Iwerks anymore, Michael Sporn must be turning over in his grave...

While I understand your disappointment over nobody responding to this topic, this "bump" didn't add anything new to the table. If you do want an answer to your question, I'd suggest telling others about where you heard this story.

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While I understand your disappointment over nobody responding to this topic, this "bump" didn't add anything new to the table. If you do want an answer to your question, I'd suggest telling others about where you heard this story.

I read it on the "Animation Ressources" website :
https://animationresourc...ick-golden-age-animator/ 

Not sure why anyone would call a business agreement or contact a "project", but here's pretty much everything:

Grim Natwick knew Walt's feature would be big and probably knew from his connections there that Walt would want him to animate the lead female. When Iwerks realized that Natwick was moving along he saw the writing on the wall; Natwick was essentially the creative director, doing a lot of directing and animation on the Iwerks shorts he directed, and had brought in other NY talent that had already jumped to Disney. Despite the usually weak story material Natwick was given, he did shorts of good quality, so Ub Iwerks knew he had to keep Natwick in order to keep that quality afloat, supposedly offering a partnership in the studio to keep him there. But Grim Natwick just didn't accept it which makes sense to me, he was more an animator than a director in some ways, but he was a far better director than I think he himself may of thought. Since it didn't happen, it just fell apart there.

That's really it. If its true, its a testament to the importance of Grim Natwick at the studio. It was for the better he didn't do it; the studio got pulled from under the rug pretty quickly in Spring 1936

Not sure why anyone would call a business agreement or contact a "project", but here's pretty much everything:

Call it a plan if you like, since it's something that never materialized.

Grim Natwick knew Walt's feature would be big and probably knew from his connections there that Walt would want him to animate the lead female. When Iwerks realized that Natwick was moving along he saw the writing on the wall; Natwick was essentially the creative director, doing a lot of directing and animation on the Iwerks shorts he directed, and had brought in other NY talent that had already jumped to Disney. Despite the usually weak story material Natwick was given, he did shorts of good quality, so Ub Iwerks knew he had to keep Natwick in order to keep that quality afloat, supposedly offering a partnership in the studio to keep him there. But Grim Natwick just didn't accept it which makes sense to me, he was more an animator than a director in some ways, but he was a far better director than I think he himself may of thought. Since it didn't happen, it just fell apart there.

Thank you, Walt had promised Natwick that he would animate Snow White from the start, a fine example of Disney's perfidy since he'd already promised the role to Ham Luske, but then again, this isn't a first on his part either.

That's really it. If its true, its a testament to the importance of Grim Natwick at the studio. It was for the better he didn't do it; the studio got pulled from under the rug pretty quickly in Spring 1936

I find this comment rather contemptuous of Ub Iwerks. Iwerks was a genius animator who did everything to keep his studio afloat despite the constant attacks from Walt Disney who did everything to steal all his animators and I think Iwerks could have done great things if Disney had left him alone. So no, I wouldn't say it was a good thing that Walt Disney stole Grim Natwick from Iwerks, because Natwick lost all his talent and imagination once he arrived at Disney, and his work there became completely dull and insipid, like everything else Disney did. On the other hand, it would have been a VERY GOOD THING if the production of Snow White had failed, as it would have prevented Disney's stinking realism from almost totally destroying the inventiveness of cartoons (thanks to Tex Avery and Bob Clampett for saving the medium).

I find this comment rather contemptuous of Ub Iwerks. Iwerks was a genius animator who did everything to keep his studio afloat despite the constant attacks from Walt Disney who did everything to steal all his animators and I think Iwerks could have done great things if Disney had left him alone. So no, I wouldn't say it was a good thing that Walt Disney stole Grim Natwick from Iwerks, because Natwick lost all his talent and imagination once he arrived at Disney, and his work there became completely dull and insipid, like everything else Disney did. On the other hand, it would have been a VERY GOOD THING if the production of Snow White had failed, as it would have prevented Disney's stinking realism from almost totally destroying the inventiveness of cartoons (thanks to Tex Avery and Bob Clampett for saving the medium).

Yeah, I completely disagree with that statement. I thought Grim did a great job animating on "Cooke Carnival" which is one of my favorite "Silly Symphonies". Also, I didn't think all of Iwerks cartoons were winners. His "Little Red Hen" short wasn't memorable compared to Disney's (which spanned a new star). And going a bit off-topic, I should point out that Walt wasn't even the only animation figure that tested around realistic movements in animation (Winsor McCay comes to mind).

I find this comment rather contemptuous of Ub Iwerks. Iwerks was a genius animator who did everything to keep his studio afloat despite the constant attacks from Walt Disney who did everything to steal all his animators and I think Iwerks could have done great things if Disney had left him alone. So no, I wouldn't say it was a good thing that Walt Disney stole Grim Natwick from Iwerks, because Natwick lost all his talent and imagination once he arrived at Disney, and his work there became completely dull and insipid, like everything else Disney did. On the other hand, it would have been a VERY GOOD THING if the production of Snow White had failed, as it would have prevented Disney's stinking realism from almost totally destroying the inventiveness of cartoons (thanks to Tex Avery and Bob Clampett for saving the medium).

Your view of what happened seems to come from a revisionist, one sided view of the reality. Disney didn't try as hard to steal the animators of Iwerks as he did from Terrytoons and other studios (Shamus Culhane recalled BEGGING the studio to let him join). Disney did "leave him alone" all things considered, even pretty much giving Iwerks an entire department to himself at the studio when he rejoined. Disney did not steal Natwick from Iwerks if Natwick left on his own account, and I doubt he "lost all his talent and imagination" because not only was he no longer directing and calling the shots, his work at Lantz suggests the Disney system did not permanently suppress his way of doing things. I'm not sure how Avery or Clampett saved cartooning, when the studios still produced funny cartoons, including Disney, whose shorts department many funny shorts in the wake of focus towards Snow White. If we are to say that Schlesinger's studio saved inventiveness in cartoons (a very false statement), we would need to mention Tashlin, Freleng, and the writers of the period

Yeah, I completely disagree with that statement. I thought Grim did a great job animating on "Cooke Carnival" which is one of my favorite "Silly Symphonies". Also, I didn't think all of Iwerks cartoons were winners. His "Little Red Hen" short wasn't memorable compared to Disney's (which spanned a new star). And going a bit off-topic, I should point out that Walt wasn't even the only animation figure that tested around realistic movements in animation (Winsor McCay comes to mind).

"The Cookie Carnival" is an overly sweet and unimaginative cartoon, which is usual for Disney, and Grim Natwick's animation here shows a huge regression from those years with Fleischer and Iwerks, having lost all its humor and imagination. Natwick just animated things realistically, and as a result, his animation had no identity or charm, but this was in fact something very common to the New York animators who joined Disney - they all became bland.

"Little Red Hen" is at least as good as "The Wise Little Hen", Iwerks just opted for a different approach from Disney and it was no less interesting. Iwerks chose to make a more comic version of the tale, with fluid animation and lively music, whereas Disney chose instead to make a more realistic version, concentrating mainly on the details in the animation and scenery. The only thing that really handicaps Iwerks is the recycling of certain scenes, but Disney's also contains some.

Winsor McCay was an artist who worked in his own corner, and unlike Walt, he never sought to impose his style on other studios. In fact, McCay utterly despised Disney's industrial processes, as he made clear to Fleischer at the NY animators' meeting in 1929.

"The Cookie Carnival" is an overly sweet and unimaginative cartoon, which is usual for Disney, and Grim Natwick's animation here shows a huge regression from those years with Fleischer and Iwerks, having lost all its humor and imagination. Natwick just animated things realistically, and as a result, his animation had no identity or charm, but this was in fact something very common to the New York animators who joined Disney - they all became bland.

Grim did a very good job in "The Cookie Carnival", and his animation has by no means regressed, quite the contrary: simply compare his animation with the lame animation provided by Ham Luske on Persephone in the short film "The Goddess of Spring" released earlier the same year, and you'll see that it's a huge step forward !