S. C. MacPeter
2023-05-16T13:52:15Z
Essentially how I feel too, except that I think FOXY DUCKLING is a great cartoon. This set, like Avery V2, is still worth getting and even then it’ll still look far better than Avery V2 (though it probably SOUNDS as meh). I’m still confused and upset it was a lie
Toonatic
2023-05-16T19:21:14Z
Originally Posted by: Jonathan Wilson 

Thad also gives his thoughts, echoing the same as the Blu-Ray review. 



But according to him, the HBO Max transfers have been IMPROVED upon for the most part containing NO photshopped titles (His Bitter Half and some being exceptions), if I am to read that correctly.
fulano7
2023-05-17T02:40:31Z
Wow, false advertising really got normalized in classic animation releases.

First, back in Jan/2020, Jerry Back said "nothing was going to be skipped" from Tex Avery Screwball Classics.

In 2021, a lot of customers got a DMC subscription and a Make Mine Music blu-ray just because they were expecting for the uncut movie.

And now people involved in the production of the set blatantly, explicitly told to the specialized blogs and fansites that the restorations would be NOT from HBO Max. Jerry said they were redoing stuff etc.

The word of these companies is worth less and less as years go by. They could actually be sued for false advertising. Obviously it is neither practical, nor feasible to do so, but they really committed such a violation of customers' rights.
I always come to TTTP in Exile in the hope of finding news about Warner announcing Tex Avery Collection.
nickramer
2023-05-17T05:07:42Z
Originally Posted by: fulano7 

Wow, false advertising really got normalized in classic animation releases.

First, back in Jan/2020, Jerry Back said "nothing was going to be skipped" from Tex Avery Screwball Classics.

In 2021, a lot of customers got a DMC subscription and a Make Mine Music blu-ray just because they were expecting for the uncut movie.

And now people involved in the production of the set blatantly, explicitly told to the specialized blogs and fansites that the restorations would be NOT from HBO Max. Jerry said they were redoing stuff etc.

The word of these companies is worth less and less as years go by. They could actually be sued for false advertising. Obviously it is neither practical, nor feasible to do so, but they really committed such a violation of customers' rights.



I think you are overacting a bit on this false advertising stuff. Keep in mind that Jerry isn't 100% in charge of these Archive projects. Some of this stuff is beyond his control. We're not talking about a small company like Thunderbean here.
S. C. MacPeter
2023-05-17T15:55:35Z
Clearly, it's what Jerry hoped for and had attempted his hardest to make happen. Evidently, that's not what was able to happen. Besides that, the cartoons still have good presentation visual wise and content alone makes it worth getting. Just annoying that it's not what was promised to of happen
CladMcClaw
2023-05-18T01:31:17Z
Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 

Clearly, it's what Jerry hoped for and had attempted his hardest to make happen. Evidently, that's not what was able to happen. Besides that, the cartoons still have good presentation visual wise and content alone makes it worth getting. Just annoying that it's not what was promised to of happen



Yeahhh. Really curious what the story is here, especially with the Stu's Show "elements being pulled" talk followed so soon by the Extras podcast announcement. (The predictable "told ya so's" are having a field day in other forums.) It's a slight disappointment, but I would I have paid $18 for pristine copies of "Beanstalk Bunny" and "Catch as Cats Can" alone? Yes. Yes I would have.
vdubdavid
2023-05-19T11:41:45Z
I'm going to accept my pre-ordered copy as it appears most of us are, but I still marvel with dismay at how Warners keeps making these unforced errors. Starting with the mispitched audio tracks on a handful of shorts on the very first Golden Collection, to the seemingly pointless cut-and-paste title music/sequences on Porky Pig 101 and the Fleischer Superman shorts* and now these zoomed-out title sequences that take us back to the 1990s (and which I've yet to hear a legitimate explanation for their necessity on a streaming platform). You'd think somewhere along the line someone would say 'hey, aren't we just making this harder than it needs to be?'

Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 

Just annoying that it's not what was promised to of happen


I suppose that's it in a nutshell. I keep trying to think of a better word that sums up my thoughts about this. Not devastating enough to go into 'take my ball and go home' mode, but still something that's going to niggle at me everytime I sit down to watch; that feeling of 'They were SO close to it being perfect, how'd they overlook this?'

*That's the real dealbreaker for me regarding the new Superman blu-ray. The picture quality is something that can be subjectively debated, but the continuing use of poorly disguised patchwork soundtracks is just too much of a distraction. If Mr. Feltenstein did indeed leave directions on how to repair them and they were ignored, I hope whoever did the ignoring was held to account.
Toonatic
2023-05-19T17:57:31Z
Let's just take solace in the fact that other than 3 shorts, the cartoons with the HBO Max transfers have been improved upon. The transfers weren't the problem, it was the photoshopped titles that were (I can let that slide for some cases to put simply, but not from a major studio like Warner) and it sounds like those problems, for the most part, have been fixed.
nickramer
2023-05-20T14:11:10Z
Originally Posted by: CladMcClaw 



Yeahhh. Really curious what the story is here, especially with the Stu's Show "elements being pulled" talk followed so soon by the Extras podcast announcement. (The predictable "told ya so's" are having a field day in other forums.) It's a slight disappointment, but I would I have paid $18 for pristine copies of "Beanstalk Bunny" and "Catch as Cats Can" alone? Yes. Yes I would have.



Honestly, if any of those nay-sayers were in charge of the project, chances are they'd probably be in the same boat (no matter how much yelling is involved).
Zachary
2023-05-21T19:01:28Z
Originally Posted by: Toonatic 

But according to him, the HBO Max transfers have been IMPROVED upon for the most part containing NO photshopped titles (His Bitter Half and some being exceptions), if I am to read that correctly.


That's not what I'm reading in Thad's review (emphasis in original):

Quote:

To the Warner Archive team’s credit, the worst of these digital horrors were cropped out for this release. (Not quite though, as remnants are obvious on His Bitter Half, A Mouse Divided, and Hip Hip-Hurry!)


Sounds like they just cropped the fake reformatted titles to resemble the originals, rather than reinstating the actual original footage. Not quite "fixed" in my book.
vdubdavid
2023-05-21T23:23:02Z
Originally Posted by: Zachary 

Sounds like they just cropped the fake reformatted titles to resemble the originals, rather than reinstating the actual original footage. Not quite "fixed" in my book.



Indeed, if the capability to do that existed, I wish they had used it on Tex Avery Vol. 2. While I agreed with the criticism of DNR use on that set on general principle, the photoshop titles were a much more visible problem for me.
Toonatic
2023-05-23T21:43:29Z
New podcast featuring George Feltenstein and Jerry Beck on the Collector's Choice Blu-ray:

https://www.theextras.tv...ts/blog-post-ltcc-052323 

I'm currently listening to it to see if they addressed the issue with the usage of the HBOMax transfers yet.

They also talk about finding original titles...especially for the MGM cartoons.
S. C. MacPeter
2023-05-24T00:02:01Z
Nothing's addressed but it is odd that they couldn't fix the visual issues with the delay they had because of the wait of getting the negative of CATCH AS CATS CAN. Even then, its odd they couldn't get the sound negs with CATCH's neg when that was ready to ship
nickramer
2023-05-24T12:21:11Z
Originally Posted by: S. C. MacPeter 

Nothing's addressed but it is odd that they couldn't fix the visual issues with the delay they had because of the wait of getting the negative of CATCH AS CATS CAN. Even then, its odd they couldn't get the sound negs with CATCH's neg when that was ready to ship



Perhaps it was an oversight?
MTGM
  • MTGM
  • Advanced Member
2023-05-27T09:18:28Z
I still have my order for this set placed since I'm excited for the two newly restored cartoons, but I'm moreso interested in the full story behind the making of this set (if we ever get to hear it). George has been back for well over a year now and I assume they started working on this a few weeks (or months) after he got back, with the original intention of releasing this in fall of last year. Other than waiting for the negative for Catch as Cats Can to ship to the west coast, there were very few things to fix in the preexisting restorations which theoretically wouldn't have taken much time away from the other Warner Archive projects in the meantime. With the exception of the two new restorations, the set in its finalized form reads as somewhat of a backburner project as evidenced by the patchwork of the Photoshopped titles and continued presence of recycled audio.

It's a puzzling predicament, to say the least.
S. C. MacPeter
2023-05-28T00:23:07Z
Best Buy thought it would be cute to send me the set today, at the price of it being poorly packaged, arriving with a broken case and the only protection inside the package being a chipotle napkin! (Disc inside was unharmed) 5 dollars of my order was refunded, oh well. I very much enjoyed the watch and will likely watch it again sometime this coming week. I recommend this set despite the false advertising. Here's some thoughts like I did with Avery V3

On the two newly restored cartoons: BEANSTALK BUNNY and CATCH AS CATS CAN look AND sound really, really good. Definitely top tier work on these work. Two scenes in BEANSTALK BUNNY are from a grainier source (Elmer's introduction and Daffy's reaction); evidently there is some master damage. CATCH's rather infamous ending fade starts about half a second later and is slightly slower, we see more of Sylvester smoking the pipe. Not much more to say

On everything else: Kinda mixed, but unlike Avery V2, the flaws do not hinder the viewing experience at all, for me. Opening titles are mostly redone, to my eyes. Some are indeed just cropped, some a bit more than needed. End titles are all cropped, and again, some a bit more than needed. Some seem to have minor touch ups to instill a bit more grain and color, but that's it. Color content is really good except on a few Post-AAPs (thinking HIP HIP HOORAY, and HIS BITTER HALF mostly). Audio is mostly subpar all around too, though still passable with a few sounding really good. The best of both are on UNRULY HARE, and the two Foghorn offerings, both having exceptionally nice color, grain, and sound (though I believe all three are still recycled). Grain is much more visible, and while still scrubbed to a degree, doesn't create a waxy image. The oddest looking one was DAFFY DOODLES, where color content was a bit all over the place, but considering it seems there was an experiment with Daffy's bill and feet, changing from a yellow to orange throughout, it made of been intended to some degree. Hopefully, future volumes are more consistent and completely redone, with rescanned audio. On a side note, its possible since no new scans were done that original titles could exist at UCLA for the AAPs with Blue Ribbons. Since most of the post-war ones do exist, its not unlikely

On curation and content: This is what makes up for any flaws presentation wise (even if you should be able to watch them without having judgements on their appearance). You never feel stuck on any director or character, each character come and go very nicely, I found putting the misc cartoons and Three Bears at the end a nice touch. While I found the Tweety and RRs entries a little weak, their still funny and leave more to be released in the future. With this in mind, it is not only a great set of "All-Star" Warner Cartoons, it is an excellent set at introducing folks to a deeper dive of the shorts, with a nice selection of shorts that may not be the first cartoon they think of with the characters, and for animation students to study, providing clearly what made each cartoon so funny.

Otherwise: I recommend this set highly, regardless of presentation issues. They still look pretty good, and it is a nicely selected array of classics. If it means future volumes with this issues fixed, then I look forward to even more sets. Keeping it to just their peak in the post-Schlesinger period to 1959 was smart, allowing for many classics with variety in director, and era. Art Davis' representation is appreciated, FOXY DUCKLING is a favorite and fits nicely as the one off due to being so anti-WB, showing how far some of them go. Bonuses being missing is about the one thing I'm really upset with, considering this being something of a first for a non-casual targetted Warners set (seeing Thad's storyboards for CATCH AS CATS CAN would've been excellent). Again, I recommend it highly for content and because it ain't as bad as one might bad

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nickramer
2023-05-28T14:40:06Z
How are the sales of the Blu-Ray so far?
Jonathan Wilson
2023-05-31T07:37:18Z
PopKorn Kat
2023-06-01T01:59:59Z
Just got my copy today! Beanstalk Bunny and Catch as Cats Can look great. Botched HBO Max titles aside, I'm just glad to have those restorations on a medium which won't get snatched away from us on a whim.
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