Received 'Parrotville Fire Department' (35mm Nirate Ebay find) (stills soon!) - Forum.
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Steve Stanchfield  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, February 28, 2018 8:49:42 AM(UTC)
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A quick note (related to the "Rainbow Parade" set:

A Fedexed box was waiting for me when I got home with "Parrotville Fire Department" (1934) in it! This was an eBay win from a week and something ago. Thanks to all those folks that didn't post it on Facebook! I was worried it would go higher (it was already priced at $500- and judging from no one else bidding, it was a little high, but heck, I really am grateful that it showed up when it did!

I examined the print on the rewinds a little while ago, and I have to say, it's a gem of a print. Nearly in perfect condition; one lab splice, a handful of small creases near the end of the film, and complete original titles (and non-spliced countdown leader).

I has all the markings of a piece of master material rather than a distribution print. Prints that made it into distribution are generally pretty beat up since they played at many theatres before being retired, and being nitrate, most didn't survive past their original runs.

After examining a bunch of the print 'masters' at UCLA on both Rainbow Parades and Comi-Color materials, it seems pretty clear that Commonwealth struck prints on both the Comi-Color and Rainbow Parades sometime in the 40s. My guess is that they did this from the Cinecolor masters to make it simpler to make 16mm prints of the film for non- theatrical and, eventually, TV use. This is similar to what AAP had done later with the color Popeyes and what NTA had done with the Noveltoons. This way it was easy to make a single color master on Kodachrome, Ansco or Eastman stock. Several of the prints I looked at from the Comi-Color series had the Eastman 'Fairy Tales' titles on them. The reason I believe these were all done later is in the film stock. It's a later version of the Cinecolor, with a different (spectral) soundtrack as opposed to the earlier density tracks I've seen on the 30s Cinecolor materials I've had and seen.

Anyway, still will be posted soon! It's the prize of the year so far-- and it's nice it can be shared now!

thanks 3 users thanked Steve Stanchfield for this useful post.
PopKorn Kat on 2/28/2018(UTC), dbear on 2/28/2018(UTC), SuperMuppet64 on 3/1/2018(UTC)
Zachary  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, February 28, 2018 10:32:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Steve Stanchfield Go to Quoted Post
The reason I believe these were all done later is in the film stock. It's a later version of the Cinecolor, with a different (spectral) soundtrack as opposed to the earlier density tracks I've seen on the 30s Cinecolor materials I've had and seen.

Steve, the end title says "RCA High Fidelity Sound System", which to my knowledge produced variable-area tracks like what we see here. (Western Electric's recording system produced variable-density tracks.) Wouldn't Cinecolor have simply optically printed whatever track negative they were supplied?

Also, if you look at the second photo in the auction, on the left you'll see the edge marking "KODAK" in red followed by what looks like a plus sign and a square, which according to various charts available online would be the date code for 1935. These markings are crisp and set against the plain clear color of the film stock, indicating they weren't printed-through from a negative (I'm guessing the red color is because the Cinecolor process involves dying the emulsion on each side of the print stock).

https://www.ebay.com/itm...e-original-/302632722250

Regardless, congratulations on the acquisition! When it comes to collecting, you just don't know what's going to turn up next. Things you weren't aware of before, known-to-have-existed but extremely rare items, literally unique pre-production prototypes, all turn up from time to time. You just have to hope you'll see them when they do!

Edited by user Wednesday, February 28, 2018 10:37:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

dbear  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, February 28, 2018 3:13:42 PM(UTC)
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I brightened up the auction photo and I can't seem to tell whether the first symbol is a plus or a circle (the latter would indicate 1942 or so).
Mesterius  
#4 Posted : Friday, March 16, 2018 1:36:35 AM(UTC)
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...aaaaand a 1080p raw scan of "Parrotwille Fire Department" has now been shared by Steve:

http://cartoonresearch.c...le-fire-department-1934/

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SourPuss26 on 3/16/2018(UTC), Jason Todd on 3/16/2018(UTC), Daffyrocks18 on 3/22/2018(UTC)
Daffyrocks18  
#5 Posted : Thursday, March 22, 2018 2:32:13 AM(UTC)
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I wonder how many other shorts used this particular variation of the Rainbow Parade opening and end titles seen on "Parrotville Fire Department"? The same I wanna know about the variation found on Steve Stanchfield's original print of "Picnic Panic".

It's very clear the "common" Rainbow Parade titles we all know weren't fitting at all on all the earlier shorts since the beginning, as these titles were considered a bit to advanced for earlier cartoons like these, in terms of visual features, which look to updated for a few years earlier or so.

So I would like to know how each original Rainbow Parade titles variation went and evolved, in terms of on how many cartoons were each used.
"WOO HOO! WOO HOO! WOO HOO-HOO-HOO-HOO!!!!"
Steve Stanchfield  
#6 Posted : Friday, March 23, 2018 10:42:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zachary Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Steve Stanchfield Go to Quoted Post
T
Steve, the end title says "RCA High Fidelity Sound System", which to my knowledge produced variable-area tracks like what we see here. (Western Electric's recording system produced variable-density tracks.) Wouldn't Cinecolor have simply optically printed whatever track negative they were supplied?

Also, if you look at the second photo in the auction, on the left you'll see the edge marking "KODAK" in red followed by what looks like a plus sign and a square, which according to various charts available online would be the date code for 1935. These markings are crisp and set against the plain clear color of the film stock, indicating they weren't printed-through from a negative (I'm guessing the red color is because the Cinecolor process involves dying the emulsion on each side of the print stock).



On this:

The stock has *2* edge code dates, 1935 and 1944, with the 1935 being the print through from *both* of the negs. In the process of going from original neg to a master positive to a dupe neg in black and white, in theory you end up with a black print-through, but that isn't always the case depending on how the material was made. In this case, it appears to be a 1944 print.

The variable area track here appears to be the later (improved) version of that technology; the early RCA tracks (before 36) that I've seen are not variable area but rather density tracks.

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dbear on 3/25/2018(UTC)
Duck Dodgers  
#7 Posted : Saturday, March 24, 2018 4:24:49 PM(UTC)
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Hi Steve, will my package arrive? I ordered several titles many months ago.
Steve Stanchfield  
#8 Posted : Sunday, March 25, 2018 7:52:19 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Duck Dodgers Go to Quoted Post
Hi Steve, will my package arrive? I ordered several titles many months ago.


I sent a package your way quite a while back; please email and let me know what you have received and what you haven't at this point- some titles have not been released as of yet as well... steves@thunderbeananimation.com
Steve Stanchfield  
#9 Posted : Sunday, March 25, 2018 8:15:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Daffyrocks18 Go to Quoted Post
I wonder how many other shorts used this particular variation of the Rainbow Parade opening and end titles seen on "Parrotville Fire Department"?
So I would like to know how each original Rainbow Parade titles variation went and evolved, in terms of on how many cartoons were each used.


The basic answer is we don't know just yet, but getting closer to figuring it out. The five in the middle remain a mystery!

I've done evaluations on 35mm prints of many of the films so far, but also *haven't* seen a few yet (I didn't pull all of them on my last visit and there's a few new ones as well).

So far, it looks like this:

Pastry Town Wedding (unknown original title- only prints available have Cushman's (35mm), Official (16mm b/w) or Gutlohn (16mm Cinecolor) titles.)

Parrotville Fire Department, Sunshine Makers, Japanese Lanterns and Spinning Mice all seem to have pretty similar titles (all 35mm Cinecolor) (see original Sunshine Makers title here:)
http://cartoonresearch.c...and-happy-new-year-1952/

A Picnic Panic has a similar title too as you know. Better material now available.

Parrotville Post Office has a 35mm print with original titles. Will be looking at this soon.

Merry Kittens- Unknown orig title design-(only available in 16mm Gutlohn Cinecolor print so far)
Rag Dog-Unknown orig title design-(only available in 16mm Gutlohn Cinecolor print so far)
The Hunting Season-Unknown orig title design-(only available in 16mm Gutlohn Cinecolor print so far)
Scotty Finds a Home-Unknown orig title design-(only available in 16mm Gutlohn Cinecolor print so far)
Bird Scouts-Unknown orig title design-(only available in 16mm Gutlohn Cinecolor print so far)

Molly Moo and the Butterflies to end of the series- the later title card (all have original titles on the master prints-all 35mm IB Technicolor)

Edited by user Sunday, March 25, 2018 8:19:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Daffyrocks18  
#10 Posted : Monday, April 2, 2018 3:28:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Steve Stanchfield Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Daffyrocks18 Go to Quoted Post
I wonder how many other shorts used this particular variation of the Rainbow Parade opening and end titles seen on "Parrotville Fire Department"?
So I would like to know how each original Rainbow Parade titles variation went and evolved, in terms of on how many cartoons were each used.


The basic answer is we don't know just yet, but getting closer to figuring it out. The five in the middle remain a mystery!

I've done evaluations on 35mm prints of many of the films so far, but also *haven't* seen a few yet (I didn't pull all of them on my last visit and there's a few new ones as well).

So far, it looks like this:

Pastry Town Wedding (unknown original title- only prints available have Cushman's (35mm), Official (16mm b/w) or Gutlohn (16mm Cinecolor) titles.)

Parrotville Fire Department, Sunshine Makers, Japanese Lanterns and Spinning Mice all seem to have pretty similar titles (all 35mm Cinecolor) (see original Sunshine Makers title here:)
http://cartoonresearch.c...and-happy-new-year-1952/

A Picnic Panic has a similar title too as you know. Better material now available.

Parrotville Post Office has a 35mm print with original titles. Will be looking at this soon.

Merry Kittens- Unknown orig title design-(only available in 16mm Gutlohn Cinecolor print so far)
Rag Dog-Unknown orig title design-(only available in 16mm Gutlohn Cinecolor print so far)
The Hunting Season-Unknown orig title design-(only available in 16mm Gutlohn Cinecolor print so far)
Scotty Finds a Home-Unknown orig title design-(only available in 16mm Gutlohn Cinecolor print so far)
Bird Scouts-Unknown orig title design-(only available in 16mm Gutlohn Cinecolor print so far)

Molly Moo and the Butterflies to end of the series- the later title card (all have original titles on the master prints-all 35mm IB Technicolor)

You found an original print of "Parrotville Post Office", but you don't know how it looks like? Drool Anyways, for this cartoon, the Rainbow Parade DVD print of it does have the full original opening theme restored, but it still uses the wrong opening sequences. (and I still wonder, how he could get the original audiotrack, but not also the visuals?!)

Also, on the same DVD set, the "restored titles recreations" of "The Hunting Season" and "Molly Moo-Cow and Robinson Crusoe" have the wrong opening theme, which is evident because of the different last minutes of the intro heard in the reissue TV versions of these two.

And we were lucky to see the full RKO opening theme of "Parrotville Old Folks" (you didn't mention this short at all, though I suppose you think it has the same opening titles as "Parrotville Fire Department", "Sunshine Makers", "Japanese Lanterns" and "Spinning Mice"), which is present on the old Public Domain print of it, badly synced over and spliced in on the first few minutes of the cartoon. The DVD set also used this full original music along with the remastered version of the cartoon, but still with incorrect original titles, I suppose.

Anyways, don't actually shorts like "Rag Dog", "The Hunting Season" and "Scotty Finds a Home" use the same style of intro as "Picnic Panic"? Cause I am 100% sure that a version of the titles can't be used on just one single cartoon. Especially since all these cartoons along with "Picnic Panic" are from the same year (1935)
"WOO HOO! WOO HOO! WOO HOO-HOO-HOO-HOO!!!!"
Steve Stanchfield  
#11 Posted : Friday, April 6, 2018 8:08:08 AM(UTC)
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The DVD set you refer to I *think* is the Thunderbean set. That was put together by me years back– and on the title recreations then, it was a guess as to what title was on each film. I tried to use the original music wherever I had it- and, often, the color prints *didn't* have the full version of the original music. Where I was able to get a black and white 'Official' films print that had the music, I used it. So, THAT's how I had the original music but not visuals. On a lot of the black and white Gutlohn prints of the Black and White Van Beuren cartoons, this is also true.

When I did that set, no one I knew had seen the original titles for the early films in the series, so I *had* to guess and use what I had. The first to show up was a super 8 print of 'The Picnic Panic' from the Netherlands I think. Others have shown up since. A long-time friend was nice enough to lend me that print, and I scanned it, and, if memory serves (I might be wrong) I stuck that title on the Rainbow Parade set that is now replicated (it's possible I didn't at that point, but we did use it on 'Classics from the Van Beuren Studio blu-ray)

It's a pretty good guess that the titles will be the same or similar on 'Parrotville Old Folks'. The track on that print was from a 40s Official films print. No archive seems to have a 35mm on the title.

When I visit the archive that has 'Post Office', THEN I'll know if it has the original title or not. The archive wanted to charge me a research fee to open up the can and look...and since I'm scanning it for sure anyway, I figured I'd wait until then.

The attempt at this point in the game is to get as many of the films in original versions as possible of course, and, for the remaining titles (right now six I think) to take the best guess possible to get them as close to the likely original title as possible.

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Daffyrocks18  
#12 Posted : Friday, April 6, 2018 11:10:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Steve Stanchfield Go to Quoted Post
The DVD set you refer to I *think* is the Thunderbean set. That was put together by me years back– and on the title recreations then, it was a guess as to what title was on each film. I tried to use the original music wherever I had it- and, often, the color prints *didn't* have the full version of the original music. Where I was able to get a black and white 'Official' films print that had the music, I used it. So, THAT's how I had the original music but not visuals. On a lot of the black and white Gutlohn prints of the Black and White Van Beuren cartoons, this is also true.

When I did that set, no one I knew had seen the original titles for the early films in the series, so I *had* to guess and use what I had. The first to show up was a super 8 print of 'The Picnic Panic' from the Netherlands I think. Others have shown up since. A long-time friend was nice enough to lend me that print, and I scanned it, and, if memory serves (I might be wrong) I stuck that title on the Rainbow Parade set that is now replicated (it's possible I didn't at that point, but we did use it on 'Classics from the Van Beuren Studio blu-ray)

It's a pretty good guess that the titles will be the same or similar on 'Parrotville Old Folks'. The track on that print was from a 40s Official films print. No archive seems to have a 35mm on the title.

When I visit the archive that has 'Post Office', THEN I'll know if it has the original title or not. The archive wanted to charge me a research fee to open up the can and look...and since I'm scanning it for sure anyway, I figured I'd wait until then.

The attempt at this point in the game is to get as many of the films in original versions as possible of course, and, for the remaining titles (right now six I think) to take the best guess possible to get them as close to the likely original title as possible.


I know everything about the Thunderbean DVD. But I knew that after that, as the time passed, I thought that you could find more real original titles of these cartoons. But it seems I was wrong.

Anyways, I wish you all good luck :) This "Rainbow Parade original titles" thing is for sure a mistery which needs to be solved really quick. It's sad when one series of shorts had many retitles over the years, by different companies, and these non-original title cards overshadow very hard the main theatrical ones, which as of now are pretty impossible to find.

Anyways, I still don't get why for "The Hunting Season" and "Molly Moo-Cow and Robinson Crusoe" you had to use the wrong opening theme song, and not the end of the original themes found on their Guthlon and Commonwealth Pictures prints respectively
"WOO HOO! WOO HOO! WOO HOO-HOO-HOO-HOO!!!!"
Steve Stanchfield  
#13 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2018 11:20:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Daffyrocks18 Go to Quoted Post

I know everything about the Thunderbean DVD. But I knew that after that, as the time passed, I thought that you could find more real original titles of these cartoons. But it seems I was wrong.

Anyways, I still don't get why for "The Hunting Season" and "Molly Moo-Cow and Robinson Crusoe" you had to use the wrong opening theme song, and not the end of the original themes found on their Guthlon and Commonwealth Pictures prints respectively


I need to go back and see why I did that on Hunting Season; I'm thinking it's because the music was in bad shape in the prints I had. We never put out 'Robinson Crusoe' on the Rainbow set, and I got a Stadnard Def of the film from a friend for the Cannibals set, so whatever was part of that print stayed.

There are new sources for some of these at this point, and we'll get everything we can of course to make the set as complete as possible. I'll let you folks all know when I'm getting close so I can throw this in front of more eyes to make sure I got everything just as it should be.

Happily though, we *did* find original titles for quite a few since the original DVD (as well as upgrades on most from 16mm to 35mm), bringing the twelve we were missing down to six. Those six are:

Parrotville Fire Department-35mm
Sunshine Makers-35mm
Japanese Lanterns-35mm
Spinning Mice-35mm
A Picnic Panic (first in a Super 8 print from the 70s, now in 35mm)
Parrtoville Post Office-35mm

Edited by user Thursday, April 12, 2018 11:22:43 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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dbear  
#14 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2018 1:04:14 AM(UTC)
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Hey Steve, guessing you probably no longer need my Super 8 of Parrotville Fire Department at this point then? ;)
Steve Stanchfield  
#15 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2018 2:50:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dbear Go to Quoted Post
Hey Steve, guessing you probably no longer need my Super 8 of Parrotville Fire Department at this point then? ;)


YEs... but thanks so much! The cover of the super 8 print will be on the extra features! I'll be sending back with other stuff!
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dbear on 4/13/2018(UTC)
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